Famous artist didn't do his own painting?

[wowfudge]

Just heard the new children's laureate being interviewed on the radio and she used to work for Damien Hurst. She said she mixed colours and had to paint lots of little circles. If that's the Hirst work I'm thinking of, does that mean he comes up with ideas but doesn't execute them himself? A bit like a couture designer I suppose. I always thought artists did their own art.

Interesting discussion. I'm off to Google Bourdieu now.

NotDavidTennant, thank you! That's a great post!

semantics indeed!

On the point of objectivity though, I think I've consistently made the point though that there are many different kinds of art, many different ways of being an artist and considerable overlaps?

I think you do have to consider an artist's work though within the context they are operating from, and Damien Hirst is totally within the context of western art, and especially the art of the last century.

It's all in the delivery cat, while I think much of what you have said is a load of waffle, you haven't resorted to making those of us who don't know what you know feel like stupid, uneducated and unworthy of an opinion.

Maybe it's more like literature. If you've studied literature, or even read enough to be basically self taught, you can read a novel and appreciate style and form and how something plays with conventions, as well as just the basic story or plot. In fact the plot is often secondary.

And if you aren't particularly into literature, then you are more likely to miss the nuances, or decide something is just a bit "slow" or boring, and doen't have a good story, where someone else sees something complex and multi layered.

My DH is into classical music, he is educated about it (done some OU stuff). He gets a helluva lot more out of a concert than me. I just appreciate it on the level of whether it sounds nice and has a good tune.

It's not a massive jump to think that art can be appreciated on different levels, depending on how much you know about art.

Does Art usually favour men?

Unclothed women feature heavily as subjects Giraffe...

Backie, did you get rejected from art college at all?

Trying to make anyone feel stupid, uneducated, whatever would be absolutely the last thing I'd intend. I'd feel very unhappy - and a failure - if I thought I'd done that.

noblegiraffe Is the Pope Catholic?

Are we discussing understanding art or are we discussing artists not getting credit for their work? I was discussing the latter. Are there two different discussions happening here?

Backie, did you get rejected from art college at all?

And there we have it 😂😂😂

You're going to tell me that isn't what it is now, arent you?

And no, my GCSE teacher gave me enough of a taste to know that art college was not for me

Artists or craftsman Backie ?

Does Art usually favour men?

Art doesn't exist in a vacuum. Of course it favours men. Men are the ones with the money to buy it, the money to pay others to make it, the time to spend discussing it, the arrogance to think they decide how much it is worth.

Artists or craftsman Backie ?

In relation to which post?

"Trying to make anyone feel stupid, uneducated, whatever would be absolutely the last thing I'd intend. I'd feel very unhappy - and a failure - if I thought I'd done that. "

likewise to be honest, but i'm obviously not as good at it as you! ho hum. food for thought.

thanks for observing Backie baiting me and stopping me thinking i was going a bit mad though. Might bail out now as I'm obviously not managing to get my thoughts across.

x

@hooochycoo could you please show where I have insulted you? I said I found something you posted condescending and that you have a superior view I don't like. That isn't insulting you.

Yes. I think it's telling that a lot of the 'craftwork' involved in the production of Art seems to be done by women, for low wages, or so it seems from this thread.

The Guerrilla Girls did a flyposting campaign (that is not always recognised as Art) a couple of decades ago with a lot of stats about women and Art.

I'd add that the sniffiness around 'sentimentality' and 'decoration' is a big, gendered gatekeeper too.

I thought that might be the case, cat. How depressing. Basically Art is capitalism, patriarchy and class snobbery.

hooochi I 100% agree with your posts. I went to art school and am a failing artist who lives at home with her parents lol but outsourcing is a concept in all forms of life. The artist has the concept the idea and the skills to do it themselves. But why should they. It could take one person years to do it or a team of people a couple of months. I have worked as an assistant and also one of my friends did a huge art piece and i painted it after he had drawn as it was so big. I certainly would never want credit for someone elses work. I didnt create this artistic vision or have the sentiment behind it so i wouldnt want my name to it. Its interesting how it seems to have rankled some people that assistants make stuff for an alright wage.

Don't bale, hoochy. MN is a public forum. Your posts are as valid as anyone else's.

@noble I think you may have summed up Bourdieu's work in a nutshell.

In relation to this Blackie

Are we discussing understanding art or are we discussing artists not getting credit for their work

You are placing a definition on 'artist' that others, including myself, wouldn't agree with. How do you define without some understanding? Can you define 'artist' without understanding 'art' ?

That said, Gombrich said 'there is no such thing as 'art', only artists'

fudge, i didn't ever say that you had personally insulted me. :-)

To be fair, though, I saw a Chris Offilli's exhibition a while ago. Art is also genuinely thought-provoking, moving and able to create spaces into which people can grow, live and create the narratives to express themselves.

I love his 'Blues' series. They are something you can think about but they are also physically compelling.

I feel I have to say that because it's really not fair not to.

And I love Leonora Carrington's work. I've been thinking about her later pictures a lot, which deal with being an older woman. Of course, you don't see her work displayed a great deal in the UK.

My husband took on a job redrawing someone's comic strip who then went on to have it published in a 4 page interview in the creative review talking about his new artistic direction. I couldn't believe he had the nerve to do. That project soon fizzled out when he couldn't continue it by himself.