To wonder how much breastfeeding matters 14 years on?

[ringle]

Genuine question. I bf both my kids with relatively few problems, mostly because I found it enjoyable.

But looking back it doesn't seem that big a deal.

What's prompted this is a couple of people testifying on another thread that their ongoing efforts to bf drove them to depression.

What are the stats?

Its

What an intelligent contribution that was. I'm sure my wayward predictive text will be most put out by your correction.

Bluesktrain I went back to work at 4 months and DD never had formula. Ever heard of a breast pump? And I went out loads of places, with DD and fed on the go or without her and left bottles of expressed milk. I even took overseas work trips. BF is not a prison sentence.

I fed all mine because I found it easy.

The only evidence I have is of my own four, as young men none has asthma, excema (can't spell that, sorry) or any other allergies, none has a weight problem and they are all very rarely ill. One does have ADHD but I don't know if breastfeeding affects that positively or negatively. More research is needed.

Its impact (correcting own post)

The sooner we abolish that apostrophe the better!

newbian , not everyone has success with pumping. Some women don't get a drip, others only get tiny amounts, and it still needs to be planned in advance. It also still falls on the woman as an extra time pressure. Yes, she can go out, but only if extra hours are spent expressing first.

I pumped. I spent about 2 hours a day pumping. I was lucky if I'd get 40mls from that. At that rate, it would have taken me 8 hours to express one bottle. 16 hours, to have a second available, if I went out. Not everyone can switch on a pump and large volumes start to flowm

ringlets, sorry, got the wrong end of the stick.

:)

I understand that doing a proper study is difficult ethically, as you'd need to tell women to feed in a particular way, but I don't understand why it couldn't be done using expressed milk.

Parents who are intending in bottle feeding are recruited, and delivered a container of ready made breast milk or formula daily. Only parents which have are happy for their child to have either participate. See what happens...

I don't think that would work though bluesky as breastmilk changes in response to the baby's needs.

I went back to full time work at 5 months and then 8 months - I breastfed them both until 3 years - they never took formula I never ever pumped it was fine I did by feeds before and after work and late at night I was often away 7am to 7 pm - it all worked out

Both babies were fine and just waited and fed massively when I picked them up - also I wish I had known it could be done - nursery and I wasted time and worry when they wouldn't take formula.

I couldn't go to work and then stay out for drinks etc but then I wanted to be with my children after work anyway.

I do think going back to work before say 5 or 6 months could help halt breastfeeding but I don't buy that you can't work etc. I did with both babies and no one at my demanding workplace really cared or probably knew.

I think people are conditioned that you can't work and breastfeed - that is what I initially thought when there are heaps of mothers who can do it and do do it bit probably don't make a song and dance about it. Babies go longer without feeds and in the U.K. When there is extended leave I think it is common for women to have 6 months off so they can bond and establish breastfeeding. It would be much harder in the USA.

I also think there are just so many things a partner can help with so it isn't the case that a women is burdened with breastfeeding there are so many different ways partners can help.

I am so glad I breastfed but it is so emotive.

I tried pumping and couldn't pump a drop but could breastfeed fine iyswim

Also in studies if you look at Uganda and Botswana studies then it is incredible what breastmilk provides - obviously the hiv risk inadvertently provided a study.

Breastmilk is superior - I wonder if men breastfed if they would just go around saying wow look at us we produce liquid gold we are so cool etc etc

You also can't tell by looking which kids in a class had a balanced home cooked meal for tea and which had a bag of chips. Just because the health benefits aren't visible doesn't mean they don't exist.

Breastfeeding being called anti-feminist is making me laugh.

Only women can get pregnant.
Is this a feminist issue?
I mean... what an outrageous situation in the 21st century.
Why should women be lumbered with heartburn, varicose veins, morning sickness & piles simply in order to make a baby. Men should find a way to take on those burdens instead.

The anti-feminist argument is ridiculous.

Pregnancy is anti-feminist. Periods are anti-feminist.

But we don't live in Uganda. Of course there are benefits of you don't have access to clean water but we do.

And seriously likening formula to chips. What a load of tosh.Formula doesn't cause obesity or heart disease. It isn't unhealthy.

And as for knowing what kids ate the night before. Actually you can tell the ones who are continuously fed shite and on screens all night. But kids aren't continuously fed Formula even though it's perfectly healthy alternative.Child nutrition is a marathon not a sprint. Frankly what kids are weaned on has a far bigger impact but nobody ever seems to give a shiner shit enough to continuously over inflate the benefits or to shove their choices down the throats of others. They'd get short thrift t if they did.

it's a good point about what they eat after weaning.

But I think the benefits of BF are ‘over inflated’ in a (misguided?) attempt to win hearts and minds, because BF rates in this country are so piss poor.

I wonder if ‘people have had enough of experts’?

But if women ran the world, wouldn't things be organised differently? For example, why not have nurseries / crèches / childminders based in the workplace (depending on its size?). Then mum could pop in and feed baby every few hours, there'd likely be shorter Mat leaves and less attrition, everybody wins except the mediocre blokes who get promoted for not childbearing More provision for people with pregnancy-related health issues would probably pay for itself in reduced sick leave, higher productivity etc.

I also think there are just so many things a partner can help with so it isn't the case that a women is burdened with breastfeeding there are so many different ways partners can help.

Well 'burden' is obviously subjective, but the reality is that when a woman is breastfeeding, there is only so much assistance the non-breastfeeding partner can give. Not being able to leave a baby for a lengthy period, whether to go out or just sleep, and pass the entire responsibility for nourishment onto someone else without worrying about pumping or supply issues, is a considerable responsibility and simply not one that can be alleviated by a partner who's happy to do anything else.

The poster upthread who talked about the limitations of support when only one person can take the 3am feed was spot on. It's obviously a personal call whether the individual woman finds it a burden or not, but no amount of nappy changing and settling from elsewhere is going to reduce it.

In terms of breastfeeding and feminism, I assume we all know that ideologies that are bad for women and seek to oppress us have a history of co-opting the image of woman as mother, nurturer etc. Hence Nazi statues and images of Aryan women breastfeeding, for example. I certainly don't take the view that breastfeeding advocacy is all a conspiracy to keep women in our traditional sphere, but the people who are suggesting it can be anti-feminist haven't just invented those connotations by themselves. Personally, as I said upthread, I think sexism permeates most things in general.

I don't think either ff or bf are intrinsically feminist. It's what they do for women that matters.

So in an era where very few women had careers but nonetheless childbirth was becoming industrialised and women were strapped down with stirrups, the idea of bf would be very feminist.

Whereas now it is slightly more open to question.

If men were the ones who lactated, you can bet we'd have come up with safe, nourishing infant formula much earlier!

To the poster who asked whether pregnancy and periods were anti-feminist: you might like to consider that a goal of feminism has always been freeing women from unwanted pregnancy (and equality only really got moving when reasonably effective contraception became available,) Now that it's more widely known that it is not necessary to have a monthly bleed when you are taking the pill, a lot of women skip having periods (because they are uncomfortable and inconvenient, and there is no actual benefit to having them).
Of course, it could be argued just as reasonably that feminism should also empower women to refuse PIV sex when they do not want to concieve...

But I am someone who has never had a very high opinion of 'back to nature'/anti-industrial/anti-technology viewpoints. Especially when peddled by men who will not be the ones doing all the shitwork that a lack of technology tends to need...