To not understand the point of black cabs now?

[Userlavender]

Aside from all the uber controversy (i use addison lee and local minicabs) can someone please tell me - what is the point of black cabs in 2017?!

They are insanely expensive, surely the knowledge is irrelevant now that everyone has satnav and they love going the long way round to get extra £££? This has happened to me a few times. Cab to the airport using my local minicab which sends driver details and tracking is £18. With a black cab the estimate is 'about £80'. Surely they are no longer sustainable due to prices? Am I missing something? Who are all these people who pay black cabs their ridiculous prices?

In London it's more like 95% of the cabbies who are white and nearly all male. And, incidentally, over-inclined to share their opinions with you. When I used to take black cabs I always carried some work-papers or a book and buried myself in them to try to get the message home that I was paying to be driven from A to B, not to be treated to the driver's regurgitated opinions from the Daily Hate Mail. It sometimes worked.

Suferjet Please share your list of Approved Suppliers of Goods and Services who may charge more but make you feel good.

Although I agree most are male the last one I used at King's Cross was a white female and she was very fast and no chatting as I was on my phone.

The thing so many on this thread are not realising is that anything 'cheap' comes at a very real cost somewhere down the food chain.

The running costs of a Black cab vs an PHV are significantly higher, insurance is sky high and as few seem to understand, the rates charged by black cabs are entirely governed by TFL, not the drivers.

The assumption that a satnav is somehow a substitute for the knowledge is also very short-sighted. For instance Selfridges has umpteen entrances, the Tower of London is best accessed at the gate where the ticket office is located, Museums and galleries have different exhibitions and theatres have changeable shows, these are all instinctively known by black cabbies, but not PHV drivers. Knowledge points that black cabbies are required to know are far ranging and reaching and set the bar far higher than jumping in a cab asking for TrafalgarSquare and the driver asking the passenger "what is the postcode"?

Many tourists book what they believe to be an hotel in Central London, but in fact it is outside -black cabbies know this , PHV drivers don't.

Then there's the vetting of drivers which Uber have so woefully managed. There have been hundreds of PHV driver registered who allow family members to act as a driver. This means that those of you honestly believing that the tracking details you receive via an app does not always translate to the person driving you home, who has then obviously unknown to you, Uber and entirely unchecked. You would never be able to determine whether they hold a valid passport, never mind a criminal record.

Medical checks have been found in high numbers to have been fraudulently issued under the lack of management of Uber's own system and this of course means that your driver may well be unfit or unlicensed. Or both.

Then there's maintenance; a black cab requires very stringent annual checks on top of an mot and other annual charges. This is not issued unless they produce valid cab insurance. However, because Uber have failed to check, many PHV'S have had their car registered, produced papers and then 48 hours later cancelled and amended their insurance to normal car insurance. This of course means that if you are unfortunate enough to be in an Uber who crashes, then you are uninsured.

Then of course there is the issue of fare surging which has been acknowledged by Uber as a problem.

So, OP in answer to your question, the "point of black cabs" is precisely what it always has been. London's finest, checked, triple checked with an exemplary record and drivers who actually know the difference between the Thistle Tower and the OXO Tower. They are also a bloody godsend if you happen to be disabled, infirm or have no knowledge of our great city. They took folks to home or places of safety during the London bridge attacks and did the same in other tragedies.
They and their prices represent the service they provide, like any other, you get what you pay for. if you don't like their prices, take it up with TFL.

Uber were arrogant enough to think their global clout would make them above question, they fell foul and will have their work cut out to overcome their now "not fit and proper" tag, but am sure they will manage it somehow via their usual methods.

In London it's more like 95% of the cabbies who are white

If you look at the TFL stats on black cab driver demographics, then it's something like 14k out of 21k who are white. That's not 95%, Andrewofgg

Ah typical OP who thinks cheaper is better. Look at what uber had to do or not bother doing to bring costs down

I'd never get an uber alone. As a woman who sometimes travels alone at night I would rather take a black cab.

Ah has someone tipped off the hansom cab forums?

Dear black cab drivers, I didn't use your services in London mostly because you wouldn't take me south of the river. And you are more expensive than a minicab. So your competition was minicabs. As an alternative to minicabs, uber offers advantages in how you order and pay for the service. It's not just about cost.

The Knowledge is now totally obsolete. Black cabs are very dirty vehicles. The fares are very expensive (TFL rates not "theirs"). There is never one available on the street when you need it. Until recently they'd moan at you for not having the £50 in cash for the ride (that would cost half of it in a mini cab) and ask to stop at a cash point -they now have to accept cards, finally. Hailing a cab from Heathrow to go to west London is systematically met with utter disdain because "the ride is too short". Cabs are typically plastered with Out stickers. Drivers are often gobby know it all. This is a non exhaustive list.

Not a fan I must say... :-)

doubleshotespresso
The assumption that a satnav is somehow a substitute for the knowledge is also very short-sighted. For instance Selfridges has umpteen entrances...

I know it's a bit groundbreaking, but I have tended to find that on the rare occasion that the taxi driver has ever asked me where I'd like to stop for Selfridges (other than at the middle AT THE bleeding obvious FRONT), I simply say "here's fine", which is usually AT THE bleeding obvious FRONT).

Some black cabbies would have a go at you for using your phone in the back of their cab. Not even joking, some of them hate it .

Black cabs are not just in London. They do exist in lots of other cities.

Franklin77 I take it you are able bodied?

Because if not, it may be BLEEDING OBVIOUS to you that the driver knowing the entrance to a shop which is near the lift/area you actually need, might be USEFUL? It is also BLEEDING OBVIOUS that the driver actually knowing this would make it worth your while asking ?

Otherwise yeah the middle door at the front would do nicely.

@doubleshotespresso usually i get a cab to brixton (mini or addison lee - not black cab ever) or to meetings around the city. I'm not a regular at Selfridges or the tower of london - i could probably, at a push, real brain strain, work out the entrances myself. Would I pay an arrogrant 4 times the price black cab driver to take me there? No way. Not even if it meant walking in the rain as an alternative. No thanks.

"The assumption that a satnav is somehow a substitute for the knowledge is also very short-sighted. For instance Selfridges has umpteen entrances, the Tower of London is best accessed at the gate where the ticket office is located, Museums and galleries have different exhibitions and theatres have changeable shows, these are all instinctively known by black cabbies,"

There is nothing "instinctual" about the knowledge Black Cab drivers have, which is an impressive feat of memory. However, none of the details you mention there are actually a part of "The Knowledge" that Black Cab drivers are required to learn. Many minicab drivers are also very knowledgeable of the areas they drive. I have had similar useful help from several, though fewer are of this calibre.

There are also advantages to sat nav over the driver being required to memorise vast amounts of information - while areas a driver covers frequently will be easily recalled and updated, out in the sticks is more difficult and I've had several Black Cab drivers not know that the road I used to live on had been altered so it had to be entered from one end only (Google Maps knew though) and more recently Uber's sat nav has been using a lot of real-time information (from its drivers) on short-term diversions and traffic snarls and the best ways around them, which someone relying on local knowledge would be unable to access.

The thing so many on this thread are not realising is that anything 'cheap' comes at a very real cost somewhere down the food chain

As well as all the things that doubleshotespresso mentions there is the main issue that, in order for the uber drivers to make anything near a decent living, they have to work very long hours, which I believe is unsustainable. This is the real issue.

Uber take 25% of all fares, and the driver provides the car. That means they have to earn thousands a year before they even cover their costs, which could easily be £1k per month to lease and insure a vehicle for however many thousand miles they need to drive to make money. That means that until they have taken enough fares to cover all this, they have lost money and earnt precisely nothing. How many of these much loved cheap fares at £5/10 a time do they need to take before they actually start earning money themselves? Hundreds.

There are many reports from unions and in newspapers that estimate that drivers working 60 hours a week are earning £23k per annum, which is barely NMW. Hardly the road to riches is it?

And many won't be working those hours, but they will still need to be paying thousands a year for insurance, so will likely be earning less than NMW, once all costs are properly taken into account (insurance, car provision, repairs etc.

That's my real issue with the gig economy (uber, deliveroo etc). Big company earns a fortune taking a cut from all those who work for them and the little people flog their guts out for no security and take all the risks of providing a car etc. A few might make a half decent living, but I'm willing to bet that more don't, especially when the costs are properly taken into account.

I use black cabs because they're licensed and they know where they're going. Gave up on Uber after a few journeys where the drivers didn't know where they were going. SatNav didn't help, it sent them the wrong way and they were clueless. Then there's the safety issue.

I use an app for black cabs called Gett which gives you a fixed fare option so you usually end up paying less than the meter fare. You get details of the driver before they arrive - a name, phone number and a license plate.

I got a minucab this morning - sent me all details beforehand licence driver name etc. Was central London and driver knew his way around - decent price. Clean car. Perfect.

However, none of the details you mention there are actually a part of "The Knowledge" that Black Cab drivers are required to learn

It's not just road routes that cabbies have to learn, BoomBooms, and not even landmarks, but quite obscure stuff, too. I live in a large, fairly undistinguished block of flats in zone 2 - it's not listed, not pretty, not in a tourist area, no Blue Plaques - and knowing where it is by just saying the flat's building name without mentioning the road or the area is part of The Knowledge.

Though I prefer mini cabs as they are cheaper and I get to my destination safely. I don't think black cabs have a monopoly tbh, we have a choice, there are lots of taxi firms we can choose from. When I arrive at the station, I phone my usual taxi company when I want to be picked up, and they usually come within 10-15 mins.

When I am waiting at the station, I see a row of black taxis, and people have phoned a station or two ahead for mini cabs and people are just hopping into them, whilst the black taxis are waiting and not getting much business. I live away from London but have a big mainline station.

Uber take 25% of all fares, and the driver provides the car.
Uber provides all the customers. Mini cab firms charge 25% commission too. Their drivers have to provide the car too.

Have you been campaigning against mini cab firms for the last few decades too?

The thing I really don't get about the posts by BarbaraofSeville, doubleshotespresso etc. is their peculiar objection to someone working for themselves, and weighing up the risks, costs and so on to do so and still deciding to do it.

All this talk about these drivers not earning enough to live is just rubbish, isn't it? Because if they didn't, they wouldn't be doing it. 40,000 Uber drivers make a living from it, good enough to continue doing it, and good enough to keep them doing it and not doing all sorts of other work.

I'm left reading their posts with a great big "so what?". So what about the hours and the car costs and all that? They write as if it's a terrible scandal, but it's just what we all do. It took me a while to pay off all the money I forked out for my new jobs (rail fare, smart clothes, pay off my education, and so on. If I were a window cleaner it would take me a while to pay off my kit. If I were a brain surgeon it would take me a while to pay off my education. This seems to be some shocking thing to these posters and it's amusing to read their outrage at such perfectly normal things.

The truth of it is these posters want to hate Uber and anything that is against their transparent political agenda. The gig economy is great, but the unions don't have a hold on such free-wheeling independent workers, and god, does Labour and the unions hate that.

Exactly Franklin, they don't have to do it if they don't want. Its still a job for them, and income, take that away they are in a worse position.

So useful with a buggy; they know the good routes; generally friendly and chatty drivers; loads of room; easy to hail for example if you suddenly get stuck in the rain or need a cab in a hurry. All properly checked and interviewed and I feel safe! Love black cabs.
Plus they're an institution

I definitely value black cabs are lot more than Uber or Addison Lee. Not cheap and I don't use them often.

I used one last night in fact. Wasn't a long journey but the fact that he knew where I wanted to go, where all the road closures are in the city this week, where the traffic hotspots are and got me to my destination without delay made it worth every penny. That's what the knowledge helps them with.

Satnav in London is pain as the maps aren't updated often enough with the changes to road layouts, permanent closures, one way direction changes. That's before you get to the temp closures and diversion routes.

I have seen black cabbies using satnav but not for finding the destination. They tend to use it to keep an eye on traffic buildup when I've asked them about it.

An institution? So was National bloody Service but it had to go. As for the chatty drivers - many of us don't want a chat, we want peace and quiet. And that's a matter where the passenger's view should prevail. If not, why not?

I'm all black cabbed out after this but a friend messaged me this morning and said got a black cab - with her card. He had a sign up in back saying 'no cc under £10' and when she tried to pay by debit card he said that was also 'cc' and he doesn't do it because they charge him 5% and they get the money straightaway but he has to wait 5 days to get it off them. Them being the 'cc' company. Apparently when she asked him if other cab drivers also have this £10 rule he compromised and said he would let her pay her £6 fare via debit card just this once. She won't be getting any more black cabs.