to be furious they have banned Uber from London?

[Acidophilus]

WTF?

Uber has itsbissues but this is ridiculous.

TFL have bowed to Black cab pressure and we will all pay massively for it. Or get mini cabs that are less safe and treat heir drivers worse.

Head over heart for me, I use Uber at least once or twice a week. I'm disabled with a severe hearing impairment so being able to jump in a car and the driver immediately knows where to go is a godsend, the same with no cash changing hands. I've had nothing but exemplary service from every Uber driver but the company needs to sort itself out, they can't keep protecting drivers etc who are assaulting customers.

So good on TFL.

I know it's slightly off-topic but to whoever mentioned the price surge this is actually a really clever idea as it means that in busy times, people who really need a cab are more likely to get one as

a) people who mentioned need a cab that much won't bother with the increased price and will look for an alternative

b) more drivers will go online to take advantage of the increased prices

The assistance dog issue has come up a couple of times which is worrying but surely they could easily update the app so only cars which will accept assistance dogs will show up on your account? Or make all drivers have to accept assistance dogs as part of their contract?

@Raglansleeve in all of the industries you've listed Artificial Intelligence will replace humans in our lifetime. Any job that involves lots of repetition is gone as is anything that uses GPS tech to deliver anything. Most of these companies are already using their vast databases of customer info e.g tracking average journeys against demographics etc to develop employee free alternatives.

This is why universal basic income needs to be introduced. Many low skilled people are going to find it impossible to find paid work in the near to medium future.

Re complaint about black cabs not stopping: It is often about where you stand. I learnt that when I saw cabs whizz past me yet stop a bit further up for someone else. (If someone else a different colour/age/sex - assume prejudice)

Learnt, as I drove more that if you stand where a cab can easily and legally pull in, has time to see you, slow and pull in, then you have a better chance.

Sometimes a driver just can't stop.

Never experienced racism from a driver. Been in LOndon 35 years getting black cabs and love them.

I also have a local mini cab firm that I use who are known to me, good at what they do, reliable.

I would add to what C8H10N4O2 said, and point out that businesses with employees pay huge amounts of tax/NI for the privilege, which we all benefit from. Part of the money you pay for their goods/services keeps this country running. By not having any employees Uber and their ilk are bypassing any contribution to the UK. Sure, the drivers are paying out tax and NI, but the company's cut goes directly to the owners. Once the driver has paid his car costs, petrol, tax, NI, passenger refreshments etc, how much is left to be spent in the local economy on rent , bills, food, etc?

...and it's not just the low skilled who should be concerned, any job involving life and death decisions are under threat. For example the minute it's announced a robot has successfully completed heart surgery (because they will be precise and not have wobbly hands or be tired etc), surgeons will need to start re-training.

raglansleeve along with others upthread - RedToothbrush and GentleSusan I think(?) make very good points about workers and the cheap economy.

I hate the utter breakdown in social responsibility seemingly co-existing with the new right-on faux-socialism.

Uber treat workers badly, don't pay tax, clog up streets. AirBnB ruin local neighbourhoods - people's homes suddenly in surrounded by cheap rentals. Amazon undercut all the local bookstores and use cheap labour on zero hours contracts.

Tax receipts down, local jobs gone, social cohesion damaged and yet it is all good as the people get what they want and fuck everyone else.

This.The estimated journey times by sat nav aren't always accurate and it is very easy to lose the signal in areas with lots of tall buildings. Sat navs are a useful tool, but there is a danger of over reliance of them and following them along nonsense routes.

if you are convinced the knowledge adds value, by all means take a black cab. I don't intend or want to stop you.

I, and many other people, don't think it adds that much value. I am willing to pay a lot less for the possibility that the driver may lose his signal.

I do find it a bit ironic that London black cab drivers who are on the whole Essex/Kent based Tories want their jobs protected even though back in the 80s many of these same people were Thatchers biggest supporters and couldn't have given two shits about miners etc. They loved rampant capitalism back then.

However, I do agree that it's outrageous that these tech companies do not pay their fair share of tax. Nevertheless, all it will take is co-operation from various governments and they will have to change. Unfortunately our government seems more likely to go down the route of tax haven offering even lower levels to attract business as we will be desperate due to Brexit.

I do find it a bit ironic that London black cab drivers who are on the whole Essex/Kent based Tories want their jobs protected even though back in the 80s many of these same people were Thatchers biggest supporters and couldn't have given two shits about miners etc. They loved rampant capitalism back then.

However, I do agree that it's outrageous that these tech companies do not pay their fair share of tax. Nevertheless, all it will take is co-operation from various governments and they will have to change. Unfortunately our government seems more likely to go down the route of tax haven offering even lower levels to attract business as we will be desperate due to Brexit.

Uber created zero jobs because uber didn't create more customers! They're people who would otherwise get a taxi or a minicab! Same amount of rides = same amount of work.

I basically didn't take taxis until uber came on account of cost and convenience. And from this thread it appears that many others are in the same boat.

So, yes, it appears they did create a market.

Most Uber drivers are happy. There are 40,000 in London. IT is a briliant model. The 3.5 London users of Uber will not forget this. Khan and his cronies are acting politically here. We will find out all kind of bias when the court actions start. Uber offer a briliant service.

The fact Big State who wants to control us all in some kind of socialist utopia rather than leaving people to earn their own living is against Uber makes me even more for Uber.

Long live Uber.
Down with Khan.

Flowerpot 1234

Why is it bad? These guys work over 10 hours a day and probably 7 days a week. When you take the cost of insurance, licence, petrol and maintaining their cars they barely make living wage. How cheap do we want stuff? Shall we continue to subsidise these huge corporates with our benefits system while they take disproportionate levels of profit at little risk to them? I'm all for competition (significant part of my job) but something is wrong here surely. Race to the bottom helps no one other than these corporates. If we want quality service (safe) and people to earn a living wage then we must be prepared to pay for it and make the corporates pay back into the system by making them pay their tax!

This is not the first and only time Uber have been told about compliance issues etc. They will have been warned time and time again, they just chose to do nothing about it. Uber obviously think they are above the law and too big and important to comply. And Oldie, most Uber drivers are not happy, they just daren't complain.

Stats for assaults/thefts etc on London buses tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publications-and-reports/bus-crime-statistics

I have no idea why people defend the TFL decision. Suddenly the left has a all for following the rules (vague, illiberal rules, enforced by the people who gain from their misuse).

I suspect most just vaguely hate successful international corporations. Or they have vested interests.

Technology has outflanked those vested interests. Uber has improved the lives of millions of Londoners. Rules are meant to benefit people, not preserve employment for a backwards cartel.

They even removed Taxify license which has only been operating for 3 weeks. This was all about removing competition so the black cabs could have their monopoly back.

What I find most incredible in this thread is all the people saying 'market forces' are also saying how unfair and wrong it is that Uber will disappear and put drivers out of work and women walking home.

They fail to understand what market forces are!

Market Forces dictate that there is a demand for a service and money to be made, which will either be filled by a reformed Uber or someone who takes over that space in the market.

Market Forces also dictate that in time, when the technology arrives, drivers will be forced out of the market. Unless of course, there is some sort of intervention.

That capitalist pig and leader of business, Bill Gates, has suggested that governments should step in and introduce an income tax on robots. Its a very compelling argument. After all, if we don't intervene we will eventually end up with a situation where no one can afford even the robot cars as they have no income and we won't have enough revenue from tax receipts to give people benefits.

So market forces will dictate that taxis are simply not needed anymore as there is no demand for them.

Thus you could actually argue that market forces might well require government intervention in order to be sustainable.

The issue is really that too many people only think in the here and now and the immediate effects of something in ££s, rather than thinking about its actual downstream effects and how that impacts on us all. As long as you can measure something in the short term, to hell with the longer term. To hell with the negative side effects to society which end up costing us all financially in other ways which are less obvious.

This isn't pure socialism, but sustainable capitalism. You have to strike a balance otherwise the system ends up collapsing in on itself.

It absolutely baffles me why this is just so controversial.

Personally I think an intervention to maintain certain standards is well over due, but there needs to be a concerted effort on this nationally rather than just in London. There needs to be some long term strategic planning for the whole taxi industry, otherwise we are going to end up with some big problems in the future.

As an example, Jim Waterson of Buzzfeed has pointed out on twitter that outside London many places have lost their ability to regulate at all, because since 2015 minicab drivers licenced in one area can work in another legally. What is happening is if an Uber driver is not regulated in one area, they will wait on the border for a fare and then drive in and take it. In smaller towns this is having a big effect and few people realise it is going on. Many drivers are being licenced by TfL but actually don't work in London at all. Giving notice to Uber to clean up its act, will in effect, potentially have a bigger impact on people who use taxis OUTSIDE the capital, where there are fewer alternatives.

The inability of intelligent people to actually THINK and join up dots and instead parrot a phrase they don't really understand, never fails to amaze me.

And I said before this won't matter soon because all of the black cabs drivers and uber drivers will not be driving cabs in 5 years or so once Google driverless cars hit the road. The tech genie is out of the bottle, it can't be pushed back in.

True dat. Uber is just a tiny taste of what's to come in terms of technological advances making prices lower and life so much more convenient for the consumer. Of course there's a payoff whereby whole classes of jobs become nonexistent or worse paid. But I agree, there's no going backwards here really, technology is just going to march on.

I’m very pleased. Uber have put small local firms out of business by massively undercutting fares. For those who complain about the prices of black cabs, they don’t set the tariff, tfl does. I despise Uber. Support your local taco firm, use firms who also have an app. Lots of them do.

Well said, justanother.

The thread illustrates the huge divide on this issue throughout the nation and amongst Londoners. It is a political issue about freedom and a large or small states.

Let us hope Uber emerges victorious in London.

I see the problem about DBS when people come from countries where the records are inaccessible or unreliable - but that applies to all DBS employment and to many countries including some in the EU where we still are. It's not for TfL to impose its own remedy for that problem.

Uber has improved the lives of millions of Londoners.

Short Termism.

Would be better if they did this in a sustainable way. Uber is unsustainable.

If competition is killed off, market forces dictate what exactly? All that guff about supply and demand?

Guess what happens? Uber are free to hike prices as they see fit...

Regulations should be there for the safety and long term state of the industry for the benefit of all users. As I say, to strike a balance rather than allow the rampant power of unrestricted capitalism and to prevent a stranglehold on the market by unions.

If competition is killed off, market forces dictate what exactly? All that guff about supply and demand?

Guess what happens? Uber are free to hike prices as they see fit...

No, because anyone can use the same online hailing model that Uber use. At least 3 local minicab companies do the same in Edinburgh using a smartphone app.

The difference is that that until recently black cabs have had a cartel on on street hailing.

Bicyclethief

Flowerpot 1234
Why is it bad? These guys work over 10 hours a day and probably 7 days a week... they barely make living wage.

What are you talking about? Do you know what Uber is? "These guys" only have to do ONE ride per month, that could be 1 hour maximum. 1 HOUR. Every driver is FREE to work as many hours as they want, whenever they want, if they want. Total and complete freedom. They can even work for a competitor at the same time for goodness' sake. They have complete autonomy, they just sit back and the app serves them up customers, they don't have to drive around looking for them or set up a taxi office to take bookings. So what on earth are you talking about saying "these guys work over 10 hours a day"? If a driver chooses from their own free will to work 10 hours a day, to earn as much as they want, are you saying you want to stop them? How dare you stop a hard worker from exercising their free will to earn more.

Shall we continue to subsidise these huge corporates with our benefits system while they take disproportionate levels of profit at little risk to them?
You obviously don't know Uber at all. You do know it hasn't made a profit yet? If Uber's 40,000 workers are working 10 hours a day, 7 days a week, I can assure you they would not be eligible for benefits, and if they could not live off such a wage, they would leave Uber immediately. When are people like you going to wake up to the 21st century and the gig economy? These 40,000 workers are making a good living, that's why they choose every single day to use Uber to provide them with their customers.