to be furious they have banned Uber from London?

[Acidophilus]

WTF?

Uber has itsbissues but this is ridiculous.

TFL have bowed to Black cab pressure and we will all pay massively for it. Or get mini cabs that are less safe and treat heir drivers worse.

C8H10N4O2
When regular jobs with sick pay and some degree of pension plan are replaced with faux 'self employed', low paid, zero hours contracts

But these gig economy opportunities for Uber did not exist before. Uber created these opportunities, and every Uber driver has free will to grab them, or find regular jobs with sick pay etc, so they're not "replacing" anything. If one wants pension etc, get a permanent job that offers this. If one wants to work whenever one wants, choose your hours, be free to work for other companies if you wish, then Uber offers that opportunity. What's the problem?

There's nothing to stop anyone giving their cleaner holiday and sick pay

"Uber drivers are not self-employed and should be paid the “national living wage”, a UK employment court has ruled in a landmark case which could affect tens of thousands of workers in the gig economy."

Well, fancy that.

www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/28/uber-uk-tribunal-self-employed-status

RidingWindhorses
Flowerpot Ah, 'rule' has more than one meaning, it's not only applicable in a legal context.
I forgot
You forgot? Or you don't understand how social protection works?

Excuse me? I forgot. As you'll see I cut and pasted the part that I wanted to ask about in the first post and forgot to ask about it. So I posted a second post asking.

and not just in UK

"SAN FRANCISCO — Uber drivers have won a tentative victory in their long-running legal battle to be classified as employees rather than independent contractors.

A federal court in North Carolina gave conditional certification on Wednesday to a class-action lawsuit by several Uber drivers that was brought under the Fair Labor Standards Act. The plaintiffs can now seek out the approximately 18,000 drivers who opted out of arbitration in their contracts with the company and are thus eligible to join the case. Uber has more than 600,000 drivers in the United States."

www.nytimes.com/2017/07/12/business/uber-drivers-class-action.html

Well, well, well.

London has an excellent night bus service, there really is no need for the average punter to travel around in a car, blocking up the streets and adding further pollution to an already dangerous atmosphere. No need to book a cab, or take a black cab if you plan your journey and stop insisting that whatever it is you are doing is far more important than anyone else

Wow, simply unbelievable.
Possibly the most absurd comment I've ever read on mn. And that is saying a lot.

I've taken plenty of black cabs in my time, over many years (most of them for work when I am carrying stuff - when I'm on my own time I get a bus) and I have never, not once, had any of them not know exactly where they are going.

I don't doubt you do get dodgy ones where someone has leased their licence out, but I have never experienced it. Drivers go through a long, long period of training (it's been compared to doing a PhD in its' effect on the brain) and risking that is a big deal.

And I do know there have been black cab drivers who have assaulted women, but at least there's an initial barrier between you, so less opportunity for the hand on the knee.

@Flowerpot1234

I see Uber are really, really, really trying to prevent their drivers getting to a court

"You and Uber agree that any dispute, claim or controversy arising out of or relating to (a) these Terms or the existence, breach, termination, enforcement, interpretation or validity thereof, or (b) your access to or use of the Services at any time, whether before or after the date you agreed to the Terms, will be settled by binding arbitration between you and Uber, and not in a court of law.

You acknowledge and agree that you and Uber are each waiving the right to a trial by jury or to participate as a plaintiff or class member in any purported class action or representative proceeding."

(US terms)
www.uber.com/legal/terms/us/

It's interesting that they want to shear legal protection away from their workers.

Bourdic many years ago, when I employed a part-time nanny, I had to work hard to persuade her that me offering sick pay and holiday pay wasn't me offering her charity, as she'd never been offered it before! (And her other employer was about a billion times richer than me.)

@5rivers7hills

@Fortheloveofscience your sister must be the most unlucky girl in London. Given she knows exactly who the perpetrators are - what has been the police response?

Police response shocking. Reported both instances to uber and the police, police said there was no evidence so his word against hers, and uber said they were "looking into it" but on following up confirmed no action was taken.

I hope it is just that she's unlucky, but I'm not sure it is the case.

Complete bold fail, sorry

flowerpot Uber mandate makes and models of cars that drivers must have to drive under the uber banner. Conveniently, they also provide loans for people wishing to purchase vehicles for said purpose. So, just as Victorian mill owners "helpfully" provided shops for their workers, and made vast profits from them, many drivers are effectively indentured workers.
Workers that get no workers rights.
There have been many articles about their practices, not many of them complimentary.
One I read (guardian or telegraph, probably the latter) was about ex-drivers exposing the practices that had driven them out. These included putting drivers on less than 4.5 star ratings onto cruddy jobs, long distance pick-ups that other drivers didn't want to take. Meaning they could only do fewer jobs per hour, as they had to drive for ages to pickup, and had to work stupid numbers of hours to make their pay the same. Let's face it, as a driver, you could be the nicest, friendliest, efficient driver ever, but some grumpy twat that hasn't left enough time for their journey across London rush hour giving you a one star can fuck you up for ages.
The drivers all kept chilled water and snacks for customers- paid for themselves- to try and keep their star ratings up. Why should a taxi driver have to provide an "experience" when they're offering a service?

But no, you obviously deserve cheap rides, so yes- let's keep exploiting people that need to drive for a living. Let's face it- you already said you can't wait for them all to be jobless when driverless cars come in. Now who do you think will pay their JSA, housing benefits etc etc?

I would have no wish to get into a taxi owned by a company who do not take women's safety seriously - it is quite right that it should not be licensed.

*Those interfering bullshit governments who want a cab company to carry out a basic background check on drivers to make sure they have got a criminal record, or an illness that makes them unfit to drive

How bloody dare they require a level of public safety hmm*

sparechange do you understand market forces?

If you don't think uber lives up to your safety standards, don't use them, don't let your kids use them. You can use mini can companies, black cans, Addison lea, lots of other options that are more expensive and less convenient.

But there are millions of Londoners that disagree with you and already 200k signatures on a petition opposing the decision.

If I am assaulted by an uber driver I won't blame tfl or Sadiq Khan, I'll report it to the police, which is pretty easy as I've got the name, licence number and record of the journey on my phone. I can also give the driver a bad review.

If I get assaulted by a black can driver I've got virtually no way of tracking him down unless I've the foresight to write his licence number down. As a customer I've also got no way of knowing whether other people would rate him badly.

I'm not saying uber is perfect but neither are the other options.

C8H10N4O2

The MPs who are reviewing and revising the law for the courts to administer.
Select Committees can review in so far as investigate the law, but they certainly can't revise it! They can only make recommendations.

Which is all fine and dandy when you are in a higher paid skill set and can pick and choose your work. However for most zero hours contract worker on low wages there is no real freedom - if they don't work when they are wanted

But Uber does not make any demands on Uber drivers, except to do one trip a month. Just one, to keep signed onto the app. In the same way as a computer manufacturer will demand a reseller does a minimum amount of channeling through them to keep them in their partnership status, will all the support and leads being passed through continually. So, all this zero-hours, low wage, no freedom stuff just doesn't apply to Uber. Work as many hours are you want, on the contrary there is NO zero hours at all, decent wage and complete freedom.

I think it's excellent. I have used them but would not use them late at night or on my own.

I was talking to another cab driver and he was telling me how über drivers are just not vettted as thoroughly or as regularly as normal cab drivers. They are not background checked as well or as often as normal cab drivers as many are from outside the uk and so any criminal convictions aren't highlighted.

perkingfaint
*
I can't vouch for the writer, but he claims (and explains how) that Uber is basically after monopolies: drive the competition out of business and then rent-seek because you now own the market.*

Yep, that's about right - just as Tesla is trying to do with Driverless cars, in competition with Uber, and Airbnb with hotels.

No one sets up these kind of tech driven, game changing companies with the aim of providing a service. The service is simply the hook by which they can attract venture capital and raise funds that allow them to run at a loss, force everyone else out of business, then either sell out with an IPO or, as you say, monopolise the entire market and rent it back to bit players.

It is literally Monopoly, the arse end of capitalism. And let's not forget that Monopoly the game is supposed to be a dreadful warning about the evils of unregulated business, not a fucking business plan.

YANBU at all OP, I'm furious too. This stinks to high heaven. Sign the petition....275k signatures so far in just a few hours. We are not the only ones to be angry

A black cabbie was massively abusive ,for no reason ,to me . The reason that uber got a foot into the market was because they insisted on cash for so long ,because they wanted to avoided tax .This is true ,my secretary who was married to one ,said that was the best perk of the job .

PhilODox

Your post to me is rather bewildering to read. It's like reading some Marxist pamphlet from the 1800s. It's sort of rather weird - at every turn where some of us see opportunity, you only see persecution.

Uber mandate makes and models of cars that drivers must have to drive under the uber banner.
Great! Keep standards up, keeps to the Uber brand, means the customer knows they'll get a good quality car. Super.

Conveniently, they also provide loans for people wishing to purchase vehicles for said purpose.
Great! So even drivers who don't have the funds to start out can get a loan to help them equip themselves to have the tools to earn money. Fantastic.

So, just as Victorian mill owners "helpfully" provided shops for their workers
Great! So many brands we know today started out that way, in the true spirit of self sufficiency and entrepreneurial spirit. Brilliant.

and made vast profits from them
And shared in their profits, having invested to start new businesses, as any investor does.

many drivers are effectively indentured workers.
Don't be silly. Indentured contracts are fixed to an employer and demand you work for a fixed time period. Uber doesn't have any of that, drivers have complete freedom to work any hours they wish, for whoever they want, whenever they want. Are you getting muddled up with another company?

Workers that get no workers rights.
Well that's just even more silly.

There have been many articles about their practices, not many of them complimentary.
As there have been for many businesses, governments, unions and people through the centuries..

One I read (guardian or telegraph, probably the latter) was about ex-drivers exposing the practices that had driven them out.
After reading your list there I'm just left wondering - well all these incentives and quality control measures exist, so if you don't like it, just leave or don't sit back and wait for Uber to find you a customer, go and find your own customers then, work for another taxi firm, start your own taxi firm, learn the knowledge and become a black cabbie etc. then! You seem to be under some strange misapprehension that Uber drivers are tied in and have to do any of this. They don't!

Why should a taxi driver have to provide an "experience" when they're offering a service? hmm
Great customer service! Quality!

Let's face it- you already said you can't wait for them all to be jobless when driverless cars come in
Eh? Where did I say that? Are you muddling me up with another poster?

lucas161212 Do you really think that what another cab driver said is likely to be the unbiased unvarnished truth?

I also backed the black cab drivers who have spent years learning their trade, as opposed to just plugging in a sat nav
Customer can make their decision, thank you very much. If a lot of people would rather pay less for a driver who relies on satnav your solution is to force them to pay more for a knowledge they don't care about??

One up to TFL in my view.

Posted too early.

They have concerns and Uber need to address them. London's not the only city to have done this.

I use Uber because it's cheap and convenient, but am not impressed with how they run their business.

In particular not paying tax, drivers' Ts&Cs and passenger (especially women) safety.