To not force DC to see exDH

[Strawberryshortcake40]

DC 10 and 15. Have never been that keen to see exDH but I have tried to be positive and amicable over this.
Saturday I had a phone call from 15 year old, to say he had hurt the younger one and was shouting at her. I went round, removed both DC and took them home. He wasn't happy.

He wants to see them tomorrow. They both say no. But he's not willing to accept this. I have said he needs to apologise, own up to his bad behaviour and endeavour to make them feel safe and happy and want to see him. But apparently this is all my fault for "believing them".

Am not sure where I stand legally on this. If anyone has had to do similar. AIBU to not be saying they have to go there?

Definitely yes.

I don't think it's injured but that somehow she wants it recognised if that makes sense? Also I get the distinct feeling she wants people to ask her about it as she wants a bandage for it

Ok, firstly I would change the angle you approach this from. Instead of talking about his rights etc come at it from the angle that the children have a right to a relationship with him and as such you are not preventing them from exercising that right. This of course also means that it is they and not you that have rights wrt a relationship and as such the children are exercising their right to a relationship with you by wanting to stay with you and not wanting to see him.

Also, do not block his number. I understand where posters are coming from on this one but if you block his number he will use that to say that you are controlling the situation for your own gain. As such I would tell the fifteen year old that while she is finding calls etc upsetting she could of course block his number in order to not have to see his messages etc for a while.

And then tell him that he should go to court if he wants to force the children to have a relationship with him. Given that it was advised that the youngest not go on her own, and the age of the fifteen year old, Cafcas will be involved, but there is not a court in the country which would force a fifteen year old to spend time with him if that wasn't what she wanted. The ten year old might be trickier, but given the history and the advisement in the divorce decree, it's likely that her views will also be taken into account.

Meanwhile tell him that the children have made their wishes known and that this is the end of the discussion until either the children or the courts say differently.

Take her to Gp..They can check it out and yes it is then documanted.

I also would contact SS, legal advice.. I got legal advice years ago and was told I could stop contact if I was concerned about my DS's safety..Which I was..Ex could still take me to court but I felt that was the right approach.

I also see a lot on here about children need to figure out what a bad parent other parent is for themselves but it sounds like there is a history of issues with your Ex.. I would say this is time to stand up and support your kids and protect them from anymore damaging abuse.

Oh how fucking sad. I could have written this about my dad when I was 10. He used to hit us, held us against hot radiators, pushed us down the stairs... even spat in my face once. It carried on until I was 14 and then I refused to ever go back. Haven't seen him since. Your ex is a fucking bastard and the damage he will do to your precious children by seeing them and being able to abuse them will be catastrophically worse than if you help them make a stand against seeing him.
They need new numbers, on which his number is blocked as well. You need caller ID on the house phone. You need to get the police involved if he shows and won't leave. Be the supportive parent that your children need.

everythingeverywhere, how awful. Im so sorry you went through that.
OP I have a feeling your ex will turn even more nastier on the kids now they have said they don't want to see him. He will bully, intimidate and control them.
They are too young to stand up for themselves

I'm a survivor of an abusive childhood and I really wanted to write and say that you must change your thinking to simply protecting your children now. Phone the police and phone social services, get it all logged. Get it all logged at the Drs. Set up counselling for them both. Save all messages from him and log everything that happens. Block him on the children's phones immediately (v simple on an iPhone). Don't make them see him. He is an abusive piece of shit and they are vulnerable kids who are struggling. Get advice from the citizens advice bureau or a lawyer about what to do next. Stand firm for them and make your plan of action. Don't ever let him emotionally blackmail them again. It will fuck with their heads horribly.

Last of all I'm sending you all my support and strength. You can do this. It will be ok.

If your children say any of the following:

1: he hurt me
2: im scared of him
3: I don't want to go there

Then why on gods earth would you make them. Its easy to let yourself down and become a "victim" but don't let 2 children that are vulnerable become victims also. Your their mum, regardless of how scared you are of him- your an adult... imagine how scared they are as children.

Agree with jerseygirl.

I've spent a lifetime in therapy trying to get over similar shit to your children. You must put a stop to this immediately.

Look I've been where you are. My kids were 8 & 9 when they said stop. And the most terrifying day of my life is when I supported them in that decision and said no to him.

We had a court order for access from our divorce so I went to court on their behalf to get that order changed. They saw the judge and spoke to her. The order was changed to visitors centre only for 4 months.

That gave the kids the space to make the choice to not see him again. The youngest was clear she was done but it was harder for the eldest. I was clear with her that I wouldn't make her sister go so if she wanted to continue it was her choice. Initially she asked for a 3 month break. At the end of 3 months she knew there was no going back. At this point she was 10.

This year we went back to court and the girls went to see the judge again. A very very scary time for them as they were terrified they'd be ordered back.

As it turns out he's had his parental responsibility removed. We are free at last, or nearly. If he doesn't appeal in the next 2 days.

And my DDs are not 11&12.

Now not not.

thank you all.
I am going to speak with Camhs this afternoon and have already spoken with the private therapist. I will then email him.
I'm terrified a court would make youngest see him on her own. It isn't in the divorce agreement in the end as we don't have a court order (it was to go in if we had court agreed access). We have an arrangement between us where he is supposed to have them on a Wed eve and all day Sat and Sat eve. He also is supposed to work from home on a Wed to enable me to work (ill DC has needed full time care meaning I couldn't work otherwise) but truthfully that has just been an excuse to dick me around and control what I do whilst acting like the helpful father.

My dc was listened to at 9 yr old.
My older dc was also listened to at 12 and no longer sees dad.
They only take evidence in fact finding hearing , first you will have directions hearings.
Have half hour free at a local good family solicitors.
Agree evidence is key it mentally makes you feel more prepared. Caffcass take note of SS and police reports for safeguarding letters for 1st directions hearing also tell them off Camhs / school they can add this in. Re police checks arrests and warnings are flagged up unless they get a deeper report. I noticed this on my first report & flagged it up to caffcass , my hearing was nearly delayed waiting for enhanced police checks which back up the amount of times they had him removed from my property. Just FYI. Them first reports puts the judge in a frame of mind for future hearing. They lent towards my ex and me being the one being awkward but my solicitor kindly asked the judge if they had read the correct enhanced police report. she came down on him like a ton of bricks after that and actually changed the course of proceedings. 18 months it took me as he was really trying to prove it was me stopping him.
I won it. ( in the sense of the DCS wishes were adhered to not him making me out to be a pain in the arse stopping them see dad ) I will always support my DC like you.
TBH my solicitor gets everything to keep on record so I know it's backed up on their systems too.

Send him a letter stipulating terms of contact and threat of court. Also you mentioned him being alone with youngest dc supervised contact centres. At least this way the judge can see you are willing for contact to happen if DC wishes that and contact is in a safe place.

All the best

alot of police and services are being told to take emotional abuse lots more seriously right now so I think the time is now for getting support from them.if you document all you have here it will create a very dark picture of him.
I no you must be concerned and not no what to do.if you don't want them to go yet they have to due to court orders it must be agony on your heart each week.so how can you fix this,not by guilt or worry but by thinking is it time to try something else to fix this.is it time to seek more help.i think so.from what ive read I'm so worried for bothyou on them if this cnoinuenes the damage it must do to there emotional health is scary.
theres got to be more that can be done now.hes hurting them.emotioanlly and in some ways now pyshically this needs stopping.now.it takes on moment for a lien to be crossed to far ad it seems to be reaching that boiling point.
your dcs need to feel safe from their parents. be that parents.you can do this.
keep in mind your goal on freedom from the current looks on ur anxious faces.the feeling of freedom in ur chest if this can get sorted.
it wont be easy but you can fight.he is weaker because hes resorting to awful beahviours to get his way.

We didn't manage to get out for dinner last night. Had a very worrying time after school as youngest DC got confused as to where she was being picked up and by who and walked out of school alone. To cut a long story short she was fine, although it's 20 mins of my life that aged me 20 years! However my first thought wasn't that she was lost, or had run away. But more that my ex had probably snatched her. Which is the first thing my other DC said too.

Because I know he's capable of that. Which is terrifying, and terrifying that his DC think that too.

Am biding my time now, requested he back off and he has. For now.

Oh and a massive thank you to whoever said I need to stop them going not make them decide. I can't tell you the relief on my 15 year olds face when I said that.

Could you get them to start writing a diary - maybe as a result of this incident, where they can write down how they are feeling about the thought of going to their dad's, any nightmares as a result of what happened, relief at being told they don't need to see him, what happens if they do see him next time etc...

And for them to know that while you won't read it, should you ever need to go to court, then there's a chance it could be read and could work in their favour if it shows how worried they are about spending time alone with their dad and have done consistently for a while...

Do take youngest to the doctor, it will be evidence if nothing else, and she clearly wants to offload to a medical professional if she is saying it hurts when you don't think it does. Dr may also have some useful suggestions for you all.