to consider breaking off my engagement?

[taupealways]

I have been with my fiancée for nearly 5 years. She very recently started her surgical fellowship (specialising in plastics), and of course I am happy for her. I just don't know if I can live with her reason for choosing it.

Basically, what she said was that she chose plastics so she wouldn't have to deal with patients who are eligible for government subsidy?!?? (Not in the UK so things work differently here. AFAIK subsidies are usually awarded according to your income I think.) I know it's none of my business since it's her career but we've never discussed anything like this before and I've never known her to think this way.

We had a massive argument over it and I'm now being accused of over-reacting. Am I? I just don't really know how I feel about all this.

I wouldn't be able to have a relationship with someone who had those values either. I'd be getting out and looking for someone more on my own wavelength, who shared my politics. But that's something that is really important for me as a person. Others are different.

I am surprised to the point of incredulity, however, that you've never had indications of this attitude before.

You shouldn't get married. You don't know your fiancee and what you are finding out, you don't like.
It would be a mistake to join your life to someone with whom you are fundamentally incompatible wrt ethics.

You have to look at how such differing views will impact on how you live together, how you may raise children etc.

Take your time. It's far easier to end an engagement than a marriage.

I think you have to let her explain a bit more clearly about her reasons.

Does it change where she would work? Who she would work with? Are there considerable social problems with the people who have subsidies? Is there stress in the system? Because it can be awful working in a system that is breaking down/failing people etc obviously not like being a person being failed by the system, I just mean not everyone can work like this (seen colleagues breakdown in NHS and had to stop work).

Does it mean she would have less facilities and not be able to provide the "best" care, only what the government (of wherever you are) provides, would this be disheartening for her?

Are you sad that she is treating her job like a job and not a vocation?

Or does she not like dealing with or speaking to poor people?

I think you can be a surgeon and do a fantastic worthwhile job, even when your job is chosen because you love the work and the money.

You're engaged to someone who's politics and ethics you know nothing about?
I've never heard such nonsense.
If you disagree with the very basics then your relationship has no chance.
Best get it sorted before making any lifelong plans.

So you work in the fashion industry?
Does your job help people on low incomes?

Well, what she may be expressing is that she wants to be a surgeon /clinician alone, not be dealing with social problems she feels dips not her forte? To be fair , if she feels like this surgery is a good specialty for her, and also it may be a cultural thing within the seniors and surgical team, they can be very ' operation' focused, not patient centred. It does however take all sorts in the field of medicine. It's a choice she is making? Not insulting anyone.
When you are in a very acute specialty, some of the softer side is more difficult to keep in touch with, not heartless, just a fact about procedures, life and death etc.

'I know a massage therapist in the USA that refuses to take insurance (people can get massage through health insurance over there) because the insurance companies can be a pain to deal with.'

And they either don't get paid, don't get paid their full rate and/or have to chase the client for payment. They are not running a charity and need the money to live on so I don't blame such practitioners.

I worked with a man who went into dermatology because he wanted to minimise his exposure to patients who had or were pretty much destroying themselves. His call.

But I think you're trying to make this a trans thread by stealth and it's a bit tedious.

How does something like this even come up in regular conversation? When people mention poverty you think of homeless people/starving children which you basically never even see.

Over here government schools are commonly regarded as "better" (private schools are usually only for students who are not academic enough for government schools), private/public hospitals are basically equal depending on your doctor (one of the best regarded hospitals is government run), etc. So if you can't see the distinction it's not exactly something you'll bring up out of the blue.

Where in the world do you live that you never see poverty?

You have been together 5 years.

Never once had a conversation about ethics or political leaning?

You are so unfussed by this, and apparently never see any one struggling in any way, that you have never thought about how odd this is.

You work in a field that is not known to be beneficial to those who are struggling and by and large causes suffering in the world bar a few notable brands.

She knows enough about her self tip know she doesn't want to work with people who require government subsidy (what do poor burns victims and poor cancer patients do? In the UK most plastics work is reconstructive very little is true cosmetics)

Sounds like you are both politically matched. She is just more honest with herself.

What did you do to help people today?

So you work in the fashion industry?
Does your job help people on low incomes?

^^Ditto this. You work in the fashion industry. An industry notorious for consumerism, snobbery and greed. And all you need to read about is how the garment industry is terrible for developing countries like Bangladesh. It isn't exactly like you are in Medecines Sans Frontieres or a social worker.

I just cannot believe you aren't willing to give this woman the benefit of the doubt in this case.

I don't think you should call of your engagement for this discussion. But I do think you should possibly call it off for the judgement and contempt you have for her without really hearing it through or truly finding out the reasons beneath it.

Where in the world are you?

Do you two ever see movies or TV programs? Read books? Read or watch the news? The last time my DH and I discussed poverty was after watching the movie "The Glass Castle."

It sounds like a VERY shallow relationship if you don't converse about your feelings, beliefs, and values. I think you at least postpone the wedding and get to know each other and have more real conversations, really get to know each other, and then see what you think.

I think it's a bit of an odd reason to call it off personally. Sounds like you have doubts anyway.

There could be lots of reasons for her decision apart from the obvious (more money).

I don't find people who put money and personal gain above helping others very attractive.

Well. I'd say a majority of people in the UK (and other more wealthy nations) are doing exactly that. Did you buy a car with money you could have used to help others who don't have enough to eat? Did you buy any clothes which weren't strictly necessary for your survival? Ever been on holiday...?

Sounds to me that you are looking for a reason to break off your engagement, if its not this paper thin reason, then you'll just find another. Be honest with yourself.

I find this a bit odd. Surely lots of people choose to go into careers that don't involve much interaction with poor people or people on benefits? We all have our own motivation for the jobs we do. Or do people expect her to be more altruistic because she's a doctor?

The way she's worded it is a bit crass but I don't really see she's done much wrong. But if it's enough for you to want to break up with her OP I would suggest she's not the one for you in the first place.

"How does something like this even come up in regular conversation? When people mention poverty you think of homeless people/starving children which you basically never even see. "

So you never discuss politics? The working poor? Modern day slavery?

You sound suited tbh.

If her issue is that she doesn't believe in Trans people, then that is for you to decide.

Or if she thinks it's a waste of government funding, then she's entitled to her opinion.

Good for her for knowing and sticking to what she believes.

I know I am going to sound defensive here but the thing about political/ethical leaning is that there are so many different aspects to it. There's taxation, immigration, male-female pay gap, education system, environmental conservation, abortion, euthanasia etc. This just isn't one of those topics that comes to mind when discussing politics/ethics. It's not as if our relationship is 100% shallow.

There's a difference, though, isn't there vegan, between being entwined in the knots of capitalism (as we all are) and actively promoting capitalist views and values that further the system as it exists. I'd say that actively choosing to pursue profit and money and lifestyle over other more collective values, such as care, does the latter. (I'm not expressing a value judgement here or saying that one is valid and the other isn't - just saying that they are different). I think the only way you could make that anti-capitalist would be if you were some strange kind of accelerationist.

YABU. What she chooses to do in her professional life is entirely her decision to make. Whether you agree with her motivations for doing so are by-the-by.

Now, what is she like out of work? If she's a huge snob and you can't deal with it then fair enough.

Every time you come back you don't really answer any of the questions that people have asked, but rather you dig deeper into your belief systems. It sounds like you don't want to hear an alternate viewpoint where your fiancee has a justifiable view. It sounds like you want to breakup with her and you are using this is an excuse.

So here you go: You are not unreasonable to end an engagement. You are allowed to do it for any reason at any time. But you have to own that. It is unfair to throw all the blame on your partner for a relationship breakdown as if this was something she did to you. Her position is perfectly reasonable, and you are making it into a black and white issue without any introspection.

I think you are overreacting. She said she doesn't want to deal with handling subsidies, maybe it's the paperwork for the subsidies she doesn't want to get bogged down in. The patients may not bother her but she doesn't want to be up to her neck in red tape.

Also, you work in fashion. Why is she more responsible for "saving the world" than you are? You've done something that interests you and (I'm guessing) makes money, but is far (far!) from a public service. Why can't she do the same?

YABU. She's choosing a career that would make her happy for the next 50 years. Nothing to do with you.

Pleas go find yourself a grip. That fashion industry 😂

What a laugh. Where's your materials sourced from? Sweat shops? Are your models exploited? There are literally a hundred other points. So what excerpt are you doing to better society?

Thanks for all your responses. I graduated from uni very recently and this is my first ever job in my lifetime so yeah I admit that I'm probably very ignorant/immature in general. I'm just so frustrated about this particular argument and I can't even pinpoint why which is pathetic.