To think the state of ex's house is an issue for the dc?

[theduchessstill]

Ex has gone on holiday and dropped his key through my door as the dc had left their tablets there.

I took them to collect them today and was shocked by the state of the place - have previously only stood in the doorway and didn't realise just how shit it is. It's actually a nice little house and had been renovated when he moved in about 4 months ago and was pristine. Now it's dirty, especially the floor, there's rubbish and clothing and dirty dishes everywhere. The floor is especially bad and the kitchen is filthy with a cupboard door hanging off and grease coating all appliances. It's just horrible to be in.

What really upset me was the dc's bedroom - beds unmade, clothes strewn everywhere. I saw a pair of pjs I sent with ds2 when ex first got his previous place about 18 months ago. They were part of a pack that I long since stopped using as ds has outgrown them, yet they were there on the bed clearly still in use.

The place is so unkempt it's just depressing. I grew up in a dirty home (like somewhere Kim and Aggie would go to) and it was awful. This is not as bad but getting there, and I speak as someone who has low standards. Aside from the bedroom the worst thing was the smell. His last place absolutely stank and the dc did when they came home, as did all their clothes so I had to wash them. I thought there was a damp problem that ex couldn't help, but this new place has a similar, albeit weaker, smell. I dread the dc being picked on at school because they smell.

The man does minimal work, doesn't swim with them or practise music, despite being a musician, and rarely reads school books with them. He only does homework with them if I expressly ask and spell out what needs doing. DC spend most of their time there on screens and, while I know they both love him and being with him, ds1 has often complained about going there as he is bored and ex doesn't do much with them. Ds1 says ex doesn't have much time as he bakes his own bread (I'm sure he does) but wtf is the point of that if the place is a shithole?

AIBU to think it's not good enough, but to not know what to do about it?

Who tidied their rooms at your house? Could they not keep their room tidy themselves? Is this a true representation of what the house is like all the time, or is this the result of a couple of hectic weeks?

Also, if all they do is spend time on their screens at their Dads, I wouldn't be going there to fetch their tablets, they could wait until they were next over.

It's just awkward as I don't think it's bad enough for ss to be interested (thankfully - that would be an awful can of worms to feel I had to open) but it sets an awful example to them and is just not a pleasant environment.

He was a sahd and our house was certainly not like this and he did do a fair bit of housework when we were together, though I did more than my share too and he was always messy. What I saw is definitely not the result of a couple of busy weekends - we are talking ingrained dirt and a smell developing.

No wonder I have so much conflict with the dc around picking things up and taking plates out etc as none of my (fairly basic) rules are being enforced. Tbf, he does keep on top of laundry and they don't, I think, go to school in dirty clothes, though when at his previous place even clean clothes smelt . Ds2 is often brought home with dinner all over his face as ex doesn't enforce good table manners and doesn't seem to think to wipe the child's face when it's covered in food - he's 8 ffs .

I just don't know what to do about it. I want to speak to the dc about it not being a nice way to live as I'm concerned about the example it's setting, but obviously criticising dad is a no-no, but how do I raise the subject without doing so? They can't be told to tidy up the bedroom a bit without me saying it's not acceptable how it is.

And Brittbugs80 I don't see why because he is lazy as fuck that means the dc should have no access to their tablets while he's away for 10 days. I strictly limit screen time when they're with me, but I work f/t and do get sick of being the strict naggy one while he is Disney dad. I don't want to be put in the position of having to refuse access to the tablets at all just because they happen to have been left there. I can't spend every minute of my parenting life trying to make up for his shortcomings - though I do a fair bit of that.

Do your dc enjoy their time at their dad's? If they do then I doubt they will come to any harm.
You should be able to have a word with your ex and tell him he should clean the place up a bit if he is having your dc there.
BTW... an 8 year old is capable of wiping their own face.

If you are concerned you can take it up with him and if you think he isn't going to bother you could pay for a cleaner once a week to do the bathroom, kids bedroom and kitchen. So at least you know someone is trying. It's not great and I wouldn't be happy especially if the kids were coming back smelly.

Do you think he let you see it so you'd clean it up? My ex would've pulled a stunt like that.

And Brittbugs80 I don't see why because he is lazy as fuck that means the dc should have no access to their tablets while he's away for 10 days. I strictly limit screen time when they're with me, but I work f/t and do get sick of being the strict naggy one while he is Disney dad

So whose responsibility is it for them to have remembered to bring their tablets home? His I presume? In which case leaving them there until he returns is fine as he forgot so you say to your children, " Daddy obviously forgot to remind you about your tablets so you will have to wait until he's back"

10 days won't kill them without a tablet, it shows your children that it isn't just you who has to organise things, their Dad is responsible for that too.

Going to get the tablets because he forgot just enables the Disney Dad you are trying to avoid.

It's not up to you to fix his mistakes and children need to know that two people need to work together. Remember what you set down as expectations and what you accept are what the children will expect from future relationships too.

Ds2 is often brought home with dinner all over his face as ex doesn't enforce good table manners and doesn't seem to think to wipe the child's face when it's covered in food - he's 8 ffs angry.

My DS is 8 and autistic. He wipes his own face.

With the risk of sounding like my own mother, do you both do a lot for them. There's nothing wrong with getting children to do little jobs to help them be responsible for their own environment and things. I'm not talking doing the vacuuming, mopping the kitchen floor, cleaning the bathroom. But maybe a word with the ex to do a spring, well autumn clean, and then a word with the DCs to keep stuff tidy there to help him keep on top of it.

Going to get the tablets because he forgot just enables the Disney Dad you are trying to avoid.

Sorry but I agree.

Fgs, it's a bit dirty. Calm down.

The OCD in me would be in there with a pair of marigolds and bucket of bleach and Zoflora scrubbing away sorry misses point of thread.

Gosh just come back to this after a day out.

I'm grateful for all the advice, but really some of it feels a bit like posters are concerned with holding me and the dc responsible for ex's shortcomings, while simultaneously chiding me for enabling him .

I don't see how fetching the tablets was enabling him? In fairness, it was probably logistics that resulted in them being left there - they would have needed to take them to school to get them home to mine and he remembered to put the key through my door so to the dc it would have looked like me just being awkward and mean had I refused to collect them, especially since his house is 2 minutes away and opposite our local supermarket.

I know ds can wipe his own face, but he does need a reminder, which ex often fails to give, obviously. And while I agree the dc need to be responsible for their own mess to an extent (as I said, they have chores at mine), I don't agree that they should keep their own rooms tidy to help ex 'keep on top of things. I think at their age they need a good example to be set for them and can hardly be expected to remember to keep their bedroom tidy if the adult of the house is sitting on his arse surrounded by squalor.

But no, obviously it's theirs and mine fault that his place is such a shithole.

That does sound grim. What is the point if he doesn't care about spending time with them anyway? Can you stop sending them until he gets himself sorted out-it sounds like he just needs someone to tell him what to do.

In a world where a billion don't have a toilet, people who wreck decent homes revolt me. Pity there isn't a swap scheme.

I don't see how fetching the tablets was enabling him? In fairness, it was probably logistics that resulted in them being left there - they would have needed to take them to school to get them home to mine and he remembered to put the key through my door so to the dc it would have looked like me just being awkward and mean had I refused to collect them, especially since his house is 2 minutes away and opposite our local supermarket

You've grumbled about him forgetting the tablets, grumbled about the children being on the tablets all the time when they are there and grumbled about him being a Disney Dad.

You then go on, as above, by saying logistics stopped him getting the tablets to you, in which case why complain he forgot, and that you would have been awkward and mean for not getting him, hence you enabling him. You easily could have said to him well go back and fetch them please if he lives that close, not accept the keys and trot round there yourself. He knows now you will be there to run round fixing his shortcomings.

If you don't want him to be a Disney Dad, stop making his life easier. Let him explain why they can't have tablets, hell let him buy tablets to keep at his house if they need to be on them daily.

But I'm sorry, they absolutely need to learn to keep their rooms tidy. You can't berate your ex for keeping a shit tip and then say it's ok for the children to do the same as that is the example they are following. If they are old enough to be on a tablet, they can tidy toys away and pull a duvet straight on the bed.

If they do chores at home like you say then tidying up etc should be second nature.

As for the cleanliness of the house, talk to ex about it and ask him what he intends to do but don't, whatever you do, go round and tidy it for him. It's not your house, not your responsibility.

I haven't grumbled about him forgetting the tablets - I said they left them there as I needed to explain why I was there in the first place. I also explained he put they keys through the door - I wasn't in then so was not in a positon to not accept them.

How they can 'absolutely' learn to do things when they are getting mixed messages I don't know. Nothing is second nature to them and I have to repeat myself time and time again - then they go and spend a couple of days there and unlearn it all I suppose.

I have absolutely no intention of tidying and cleaning for him.

If they do chores at home like you say then tidying up etc should be second nature.

I was expected to,and did,do chores and tidy etc when I was growing up - it's second nature most of the time now,but I'm 58!!
And it's always a bit of an effort,because there are always things more enjoyable,more interesting and sometimes more important than chores.

So if you have DCs for whom tidying etc is second nature,great - but if not,people are different,and it doesn't necessarily translate to lazy,or immature,or badly brought up...

For me that is crossing the line of health and safety , not helping with homework nor doing anything with them is his personal decision but one you can do something about.
make sure you take them, they'll soon realise they are better with you and not want as much contact with their Dad.
Can you talk to him on a what's best for the kids way?
Take photo's of the dishes and the kitchen, he is coming back to this mess that he has made. He left it to go on holiday.

And while I agree the dc need to be responsible for their own mess to an extent (as I said, they have chores at mine), I don't agree that they should keep their own rooms tidy to help ex 'keep on top of things. I think at their age they need a good example to be set for them and can hardly be expected to remember to keep their bedroom tidy if the adult of the house is sitting on his arse surrounded by squalor.

OP. I quite clearly said that the DCs can help him keep on top of it once your ex had done the initial clean. There is nothing wrong with that whatsoever. It also enables you to keep on top of it too, you already said earlier you're finding it hard to enforce your rules.

Children have been taught to tidy up after themselves since nursery age, have you ever walked in to pick a dc up early and came across tidy up time? Not one child grumbling, just getting on with it.

If my ex walked into my house in a state of squalor he'd be on the phone to his solicitor before he'd left, he'd be taking the children with him too; the same me to mine if I'd have walked into his in that state.

I was doing a lot more, too much even when I was my DCs age. It never hurt me. No one is saying that the DCs should do the jobs for him, just the they can be responsible for their own little things.

It truly boggles my bloody mind how people live like this

It really isn't difficult to pick up after yourself, spritz surfaces and wipe them down, and have a quick run around with the hoover. It takes hardly any time at all. Having such low standards, and thus teaching your children those same foul standards, is fucking disgusting. Unless you physically struggle with a health problem or a disability which prevents you from doing X, Y or Z, then I'm sorry, but it's inexcusable. Housework is a never-ending burden for us all and nobody really enjoys having to do it, but it still needs done!

The fact that he left the house key for you to go and fetch the tablets, OP, is what concerns me about all of this. He was perfectly okay with you going into such a grim state to retrieve the tablets, and that to me screams volumes. It tells me he:

1. Doesn't give a crap.
2. Doesn't see a problem with the way he lives.
3. Is perfectly happy to raise his children in a shithole.
4. Is perfectly happy for his children to learn bad habits.
5. Will just stare and blink at you were to challenge him on the state of the place.

He's being a lazy twat. The house is dirty, smelly and full of rubbish and dirty laundry. To all those asking why the children aren't keeping their bedrooms tidy - why would they!? Look at the example they are being set! What child is going to clean up after themselves when dad's house is a total dump and he can't be bothered to lead by example? What child is going to take any pride in their room or themselves when their father isn't teaching them to?

If it was me, OP? I'd be taking pictures, printing them out and slapping them down in front of him when he gets home, asking for an explanation. I wouldn't be letting the kids back until the place was clean. That might sound really dramatic to some, but for me it borders on neglect. Children deserve a warm, clean home. It doesn't have to be fancy, but warm and clean? Absolutely. 'Home' should be a positive thing for children - a safe environment where they want to spend time. It should not be something they have to suffer.

Want to live like a pig? Knock yourself out.

Forcing your children to live in a pigsty? That's a hell no from me.

Nothing is second nature to them and I have to repeat myself time and time again - then they go and spend a couple of days there and unlearn it all I suppose.

It doesn't get any better.

I checked DD had done all her homework tonight. Her: "yeah I did all apart from the English one because I couldn't find it".
Me: "have you looked in X place?".
"Yeah I've looked there twice but I couldn't see it".

I told her she needs to find it, do it, and I won't be making any excuses for her. Guess where she found it?...

There's a fine line between teaching children to be responsible for stuff, and turning them into little skivvys. I am very against parents using their older children to do the 'mum' jobs, I'm not against children being taught a little bit of responsibility and independence.

Vino

I was expected to,and did,do chores and tidy etc when I was growing up - it's second nature most of the time now,but I'm 58!!
And it's always a bit of an effort,because there are always things more enjoyable,more interesting and sometimes more important than chores

Well that's where life is shit because unfortunately tidying up and housework needs to be done and there's no excuse unless you're happy to live in a shit pit.

Everything is more interesting than tidying but that doesn't mean it's ok to leave it. I was taught how to clean and tidy and that far outweighs living in a dump.

Having a clean house doesn't mean a child is free from harm/neglect.

We knew someone who always kept her house pristine. All her children were still removed under an EPO.

How they can 'absolutely' learn to do things when they are getting mixed messages I don't know. Nothing is second nature to them and I have to repeat myself time and time again - then they go and spend a couple of days there and unlearn it all I suppose

Just remind them they are not at Dads now so they actually need to help out and show some pride in their things and themselves.

I've got a DS, I could bang my head up a brick wall at times as he gives me a vacant look as though he's never heard me talk before but even he knows that his bed is made each morning, his washing goes to the basket each Friday and he even empties the dishwasher and fills it again. He can also work the washing machine and put a load on.

This isn't him doing adults work, he will ask to do these things and when he does I let him. He needs to know how to do all of this in adult life which is why I let him. Plus if we all pull together during the week, then weekends are not bogged down with housework.

Did their Dad have a Mom who did everything for him? I have a friend whose Mom did everything until she left home at 28. When she moved into her house, she didn't know how to make toast, couldn't use a tin opener and now, 10 years on, she barely cleans as she doesn't know how.

So why it may seem to you that your hard work is wasted, hopefully the more they do with you, the more it highlights that their Dad actually lives in a potential health hazard!

I must be an exceptionally shit mother.

My sciatica had flared up. My DD even helped me with the gardening earlier. She even wanted to!