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AIBU?

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Original poster

DD passed her kick boxing grading, but I have just recieved a call to say she hasn't and needs to return the belt/certificate!?!?

82 replies

justicedestiny · 16/09/2017 18:02

DD did her purple belt (I believe it's something like her 7th belt) grading today and she gets assessed by 5 of the instructors on different things, they fill out the sheet, at the end, the main instructor adds up the points on the sheet and says if they have passed/failed. She was told she had passed like all the other times, was given her certificate and belt and walked home (it's at the end of our road) we celebrated with a take away and was all smiles all around. About an hour ago, I received a call from the instructor that isn't her instructor but goes through the sheets, etc. and adds their names to the correct board after gradings, etc. says unfortunately she didn't actually reach the points needed for the grading and it was just a mathematical error and she needs to return the belt and certificate and she will stay at the previous belt until the next grading. I am horrified! She is 11 and that's quite young really... She is very upset!

AIBU to think they should check their maths if it's that close before telling her!? I am really quite shocked.

OP posts:
BackieJerkhart · 16/09/2017 19:54

Its cruel to do it to anyone regardless of age,

I disagree. If it were an adult they are able to understand everyone makes mistakes and accept they didn't get enough points (which is their own doing) to pass grading. Most adults I know would be happy to say "fair enough" and give the belt back. A child doesn't yet have the emotional maturity and skills to process that and come to the same response.

BackieJerkhart · 16/09/2017 19:57

I wouldn't say it's 'cruel' - they didn't do it to deliberately hurt her.

Their mistake adding the points isn't what is cruel. It's the asking for the belt back that is cruel.

alltouchedout · 16/09/2017 20:00

The most sensible option here would surely be for them to assess her again, with no charge?

IdaDown · 16/09/2017 20:09

At DS's karate club they have a 'tag' system for the gradings - so if you don't quite reach the standard for the next belt then they give you a 'half' belt. Works well as an incentive for the kids. After all, the aim is to encourage the kids.

Could they re-examine?

RhiWrites · 16/09/2017 20:13

They are bonkers. Keep the belt and move her to another karate school.

Foslady · 16/09/2017 23:05

I tell them THEY have to tell her, let them do their own crappy admitting they were wrong and see her face fall. And I'd also be asking what steps they are putting in place to stop it happening again and By how much did she fail? Could they not check out the area she scored low on, see if she can get the extra mark?
But I would refuse to do their dirty work

Gorgosparta · 17/09/2017 07:36

£75 membership fee per year? Per month?

Do you pay for lessons on top of that.

I go to competitions all the time, even if not competing. There are kids of all grades. We all know people from loads of clubs. We even travel abroad. I have never heard of refusal to compete if you dont have a blackbelt. Usually at the world championships the majority are blackbelt. But its not a rule that you must be.

Op you club sounds very odd and not the norm. It also sounds quite expensive.

If this happened at our club, they would give her a retest in the next lesson.

DoctorDoctor · 17/09/2017 07:53

Not a professional way to behave. When I assess work as a lecturer, I look carefully at any near borderlines, discuss with colleagues etc. before determining the mark. Let's say that for once I made a clerical error and told a student they had a passing mark, but discovered later I had intended to give a failing mark - that's tough on me, the mark's been awarded now and should stand. It would create massive bad feeling to do otherwise*. Interesting that the dojo don't seem to feel that way.
*for anyone thinking 'but that mistake could mean a incompetent person qualifies to practice something!' -it really won't. And this doesn't happen across pass/fail borders anyway as we check.

FlakeBook · 17/09/2017 07:54

I wouldn't even have told dd and I'don't have told them to whistle. Find another club.

BertrandRussell · 17/09/2017 08:04

So I'm the only one who thinks that it's a real shame and awful for your dd but if you take part seriously in a sport you want to progress properly on merit and not because somebody added it up wrong?

strawberrisc · 17/09/2017 08:12

I'd be understandably furious but if they DID agree for her to keep the belt and the grade she still knows that technically she didn't actually pass.

It's a life lesson that has cone about quite early. How you teach her to handle it could be vital in terms of how she handles any future knock-backs. Obviously she knows you're proud of her and will continue to be.

I would also make a formal complaint.

Gorgosparta · 17/09/2017 08:16

No Bertrand i agree, it should be on merit.

However, there are several work arounds available to the dojo and they should have offered some of them.

Calling and say 'yeah we counted wrong. Give us out stuff back.' Isnt good enough.

BertrandRussell · 17/09/2017 08:17

Why would you name a formal complaint? To what end? It wasn't a procedural error or anything like that- it was just a mistake. A really unfortunate one, but just a mistake.

Pengggwn · 17/09/2017 08:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Shockers · 17/09/2017 08:28

Because the mistake was theirs, perhaps they could give your DD the opportunity to re-test on the part she dropped marks on. (I hate the word failed; nobody fails when they try... they may not pass, but they're working towards it, so they aren't failing.)

Gorgosparta · 17/09/2017 08:36

A formal complaint is pointless. It wont get you anywhere.

NuttyMcAlletun · 17/09/2017 08:48

Replace kick boxing grade by driving licence. How would you feel?

Mistakes happen, but it doesn't say much about the gradings and the instructors if the judges don't even know the level of the students in front of them and need to recount marks to know if they fail or pass. I have never seen a grading where the result comes as a surprise! People can be up to standard, or not at all, and when they are obviously borderline you count the marks carefully, but it doesn't make any sense to give a belt when it's not deserved. It doesn't work like that.

Bad enough to make such a mistake, but the way they handle it is wrong.
The club might be a martial art set-up, but is still a business. For the 11 year old, it's only a hobby. It's not the Olympics, it's a child's grading. The whole thing is ridiculous.

NuttyMcAlletun · 17/09/2017 08:50

I would lose all confidence in the club, but be aware that if she changes club now, she will probably start again for the belts. Because of the different standards, clubs don't tend to recognise grades from other clubs. As an adult I would, but it's not great for a child to go for her first belt again.

Expemsiveuniform · 17/09/2017 08:51

I think that because the grade says she's at a standard and she isn't then they should retest her asap. But it is like any test. If you dint pass toy can they have the certificate. And I don't know much about martal arts but would she be in danger if she was fighting (?) at a higher level against better people than she is?

Gorgosparta · 17/09/2017 08:53

nutty thats not my experience.

A new club would observe for a few sessions and then decide wether the new student would keep the belt or not. Never known someone automatically lose their belts upon moving club.

BertrandRussell · 17/09/2017 09:07

"(I hate the word failed; nobody fails when they try... they may not pass, but they're working towards it, so they aren't failing.)"

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!

NuttyMcAlletun · 17/09/2017 09:09

She wouldn't be in danger at all because grades are mainly irrelevant in fights. You can have fights for beginners only (meaning your first 3 fights for example) then you move on .It's a martial art, so even if a novice fight a black belt, he won't be battered. You win points, and the more experienced you are, the better you judge your strength. You are actually more at risk with another beginner!
I don't even know if full contact exists for children? Knock outs are not requested.

Gorgosparta I have seen many cases, I can't think of anyone who retained their belts when moving, unless they were several Dans instructors, with a fighting track record. All clubs are different.
But assessing students by looking at them is exactly the point there: you should be able to do so, not give a belt by mistake to take it away later. Bonkers. (or clearly incompetent).

AnnPerkins · 17/09/2017 09:15

Your DD must be very upset and disappointed but she won't want to keep an award she might not have fully earned yet.

As usual, though, it's not the mistake that matters, it's how it's handled. They should reassess her on the bits where she dropped the points. Do they do a 'temporary' belt if someone's close but not quite there, and they have to have made up the ground at the next one?

Mind you, DS's last karate grading was handled appallingly, and I was quite upset by the way they treated 8 year olds. He got over it but I can well imagine it puts some children off trying again.

I hope a sensible discussion with the instructor finds a kinder solution than just demanding the belt is returned.

Shockers · 17/09/2017 09:17

Betrand, if you worked in a school, you'd hate it too. So many kids think of life as pass or fail, and struggle with the concept of giving things a second/third/fourth chance...

museumum · 17/09/2017 09:22

I did jiu jitsu for years and years. Once you reach an instructor level of belt it becomes quite clear to see a student what belt they're operating at. I could tell a purple belt from the belt below over the course of a session. If the panel gave her the belt and said congratulations then either they weren't paying enough attention or she was a hairs bredth from passing.

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