To think I should not pay to join an orchestra?

[Orchestramum]

DD 7 was desperate to join the school orchestra. Yesterday I approached her primary school music teacher and was shocked because apparently you have to pay good money to join in. I have several DC who had attended state schools, private schools and one grammar school and I had never paid for the school orchestra. AIBU to think it should be free and accessible to all children?

Headofthehive, she is doing 3 instrument lessons a week, swimming, tutor, choir and kumon in Maths and English. It's not the sort of activities where I can get a discount by helping out.

A tutor and kumon in maths and English sounds an awful lot for a 7 year old.

Pizzaexpress I don't have a choice really. We are aiming to one of the top London schools anfter a state primary, competition is horrendous and I am feeling like a less pushy mum when I compare DD to some other children I know.

Give her the choice between choir and orchestra if they're similar cost perhaps?

you do have a choice absolutely.
she is 7 years old.
what is the worst that can happen if she doesn't make it into the "top London school"?
if she cannot get in without huge amounts of tutoring (at seven years old!! ) , maybe she is better off aiming at a less demanding all-rounder school?

if she is really good at music focus on that and maybe she gets a musical scholarship? in which case the lunch time orchestra is worth the money. if she can already swim, just take her yourself and quit the lessons. if music is her thing, spend less on the others and more on music.

Wow that's truly crazy. I'm in A Grammar area and think the push for grammar tutoring is mad (although I could make a fortune doing it) never mind at 7:(

some of the leading london State selectives offer selection for kids with musical ability too. it doesnt have to be private

I don't know anyone at all in our school or wider friendship circle with that level of tutoring.

Why don't you tutor her yourself?
You can buy workbooks a lot cheaper than tuition.

She has a lot on. I hope she doesn't burn out with all that extra curricular stuff. Apparently music can help with academic achievement so if you had to choose I would knock the choir on the head and keep the instrument.

Does she really need 3 instrument lessons a week as well? Being on grade three at 7 is pretty amazing.

I don't want this thread turning into a discussion of tutoring/other activities. I was surprised with the fact that now I have to pay for the orchestra too and that's why I started this thread.

I think people are trying to help you find the cash fir the orchestra if that's what you want.

By tutoring her yourself you would free up that money, so it wouldn't be an issue?

Everyone to a certain extent tutors their children either by listening to them read or more formal stuff.

If the orchestra is as bad as you say it is, surely it will put her off playing with others, wouldn't she be better with a group more akin to her standard?

So I don't think you need worry about the merits of tutoring!

Headofthehive I know what you mean. I think we are paying our tutor out of fear, our own insecurities and it's also gives us some kind of a routine. We tried tutoring ourselves, but it's always getting less frequent until we forget about it for weeks and then remember that we have not done anything for a month or two. I have other children and also volunteer at school, so don't have much time left for anything if I am honest.

Foslady, I was going to give it a try for free and was shocked to find out its actually cost money! Not sure it is worth paying if I am honest.

These kinds of programs cost money too-why shouldn't you take more financial responsibility for your child?

Ttbb, it's just that we never paid for it before, I am not demanding a free place, I am going to pass on the activity. I am not asking for benefits or something to pay for it...

(you might be offended its asking about your income)

Personally I don't think there is any point in having music lessons if you don#'t play in a group! By far the most valuable thing I got out of playing my instruments was being part of bands and orchestras.

However age 7 is very young but grade 3 should be good enough to get something out of group playing. It is quite a different skill to watch the conductor and listed to the orchestra rather than just playing your solo piece.

I am not surprised it has a fee, shame. Music is v expensive. My bands generally had a small charge or we raised money through CD sales and concerts (but obviously we weren't a junior school band!).

I am probably very bad at explaining my point of view. Till now I thought that orchestra and choir were important parts of growing up and going to school. I would be equally surprised if I was charged for geography lessons or French. I thought it was a given that school takes pride in its sport and music achievements. It was always the case till we joined this particular school. My kids attended 8 different schools between them and music was always an integral part of their education. But obviously not anymore.

I pay £80 per term for an amateur orchestra. Conductors have to be paid, music royalties need to be paid, scores need to be printed, rehearsal space has to be hired, etc. Your daughter's situation is different, but if the school isn't supporting the orchestra venture financially, the participants have to pay. It's not that different to an after school club.

I think your choice of words re your daughter being an asset was a bit unfortunate. It sounded as if you were suggesting that she should be exempt from fees because she's a good player for her age. I'm sure that wasn't what you meant.

Nettle it was obvious tongue in cheek (I used to be an accountant in my pre-children days). I think all kids should have an opportunity to participate in orchestra for free. Like in all the previous schools my kids had attended over the years.

I would like it to be part of the standard offering too, but teaching these days is a lot more pressured and I'm not surprised teachers don't want to give up their free time to run one.
Is it a regular member of staff that runs it or is it someone else?

Often if it's an after school activity, the club needs to pay for the use of the school premesis if it's a private finance initiative.

Forget about the school orchestra, it's likely to be crap anyway. Get your kids involved in music at the county level - there should be several free orchestras which will take them from nothing and give them a really good start. My county has one group for primary-aged children and another for older children (from about 12).

Be bloody grateful there's an orchestra at all.

Neither my primary school (early 80s, approx 80 pupils, so understandable) nor my secondary school (mid-80s to early-90s, approx 1,000 pupils, so less understandable) had a choir or orchestra.

You seem to be pushing her an awful lot. If the orchestra is shit, don't pay it, continue her private lessons (I think 2 instruments is sufficient at her age) until she's a bit older and with a few higher grades under her belt and then join a proper orchestra.