to be freaked out by the frozen, filled faces littering our media

[PhelanGood]

Seriously. And I bet they all think nobody can tell! Will this trend ever end?

I'm often too distracted by the botoxed plumped juvedermed visages on display, to concentrate on what the bearer of said face is actually saying! Doesn't help that they can no longer engage viewers with natural facial expressions.

I find it fascinating and alarming that paying to have the world's deadliest poison injected into you is becoming the norm, especially when all it achieves is a face that doesn't move, and ultimately a weakening of the muscles, which surely are the thing we should be strengthening to prevent wrinkles long term..!? And concentrating on eliminating toxins!

(Obviously I'm not talking about its medicinal uses such as preventing migraines.)

Fillers are even worse, they look absolutely repugnant to me. Especially in the lips! Who wants to kiss a pair of plumped up plastic lips that look like you've had an allergic reaction.

Am I being unreasonable, and am I alone in finding this trend so disturbing and weird... do I need to get with the times? Are injectables just today's "whalebone corsets"? It's got to a point where I actually adore seeing lovely wrinkled faces on the screen as it's so rare now.

No, my Botox didn't make me look younger. It just made me look unwrinkled. Having my moles, skin tags and thick facial hair removed (I was a beauty, I tell you) also didn't make me look younger, but it made me feel much, much better. I no longer felt ashamed and insecure when speaking to people. I no longer shied away from applying for jobs I wanted because I knew I'd be in close face to face contact with people. I no longer looked away and came over badly in job interviews.

Perhaps I should have made my way in the world despite these utterly fixable things that made me feel permanently ugly....actually no. It's my body and I can do whatever the fuck I like with it, including minor procedures to remove disfigurements. Nobody is obliged to like my choices, but they would do well not to insult me for them. It's not a moral issue.

I am happier, much much happier, with definite benefits to my life as a result of improved confidence, and I have harmed nobody. If I went around calling women horrid names because they had made different choices to me with regard to bodily autonomy, well, I might do some harm then.

Bloody hell Yorick.

All she said is that your Botox probably doesn't make you look any younger. It probably makes you look as if you've had Botox.

Where's the negative judgement inherent in such observations?
It's great that you're happier now you've had Botox but really, nobody is insulting you because of your choices.

Having my moles, skin tags and thick facial hair removed

TBF this is different from having lip fillers or your no. 11s botoxed.

MissAlabama, I was agreeing that it doesn't make me look younger, and explaining that that was not my intention. I have to assume that poster thought it was my intention, since she felt the need to make the statement. And she hasn't even seen me, or any of the others! Is there anything MNers can't do?

You say I look like I've had Botox. I say I look less cross and worried all the time. You say potato, I say potarto.

And if you think OP is not insulting anyone, you might look back to where she made a lovely reference to "tightened trollops" about women who have made different choices in their bodily autonomy. Yay sisterhood.

I'm interested in posters who say that everyone's on to those who have had Botox. I can honestly say I don't have a bloody clue which of my acquaintances has had it done. I wouldn't care if I had.

TBF this is different from having lip fillers or your no. 11s botoxed.

Why?

I had fillers on one side of my face because after some terrible dentistry i lost a couple of teeth and where the roots had been my jaw atrophied. So i had bovine bone graft onto my jaw, implants and where my face had sunken in on one side fillers in the line from nose to mouth. Certainly no one would ever look at me and say 'oh she's had fillers'. So when people say they can tell with every single person who has fillers it's rubbish. Done sensibly it can be very helpful.

Just like when i get my boobs done. After only bfing from one side for 5 years i'm sick of wearing a prosthetic to balance me out. I will be getting as natural shape as i can to just look even. I wont be huge or 'obvious' and it will just be to make me even. But i have had some consultations where i have been urged to go very big and with a much more fake shape than i want.

I see that a lot of people think those who have Botox (which is such a piddling little procedure! Honestly! I was actually disappointed at how quick and boring it was!) are buying into some sort of toxic cultural narrative.

From my perspective, I dislike the cultural narrative that anyone who has a two-minute, non surgical procedure using a chemical that leaves the body in a fortnight must be some sort of vapid slut obsessed with looking 18 forever.

Well, no Yorick, she didn't allude to your personal intention being to look younger; although granted that is why most people do have Botox.

It was definitely why I had it, from ages 25-31, because I have an expressive face and constant raising of my eyebrows had caused creases where a woman of my age shouldn't have those.

I stopped because I can spot Botox from a mile away, well I certainly can if I've had more than a ten minute, mildly interesting/engaging conversation with somebody. It's not usual not to raise your eyebrows or draw them in at all during an animated recounting of an experience. It's not usual to widen your eyes or to widen your nostrils slightly to compensate for the lack of movement.

If a woman has had Botox and is aware of the impact upon her own expressions then she can spot it in other people, that's why I stopped having it done, I'm far too vain to let other people attribute my looks to injectible interventions. I'm on to the next thing.

Honestly I don't judge those who like to have Botox, I'd be a massive hypocrite if I did so, I just think that the whole thing is a little passé.

I have Botox once a year because it makes me look better. Not younger, not weird, but brighter, more fresh and non-frowny. I am constantly asked what regime I use on my face. People never asked me this pre-Botox.

I am watching Masterchef with Ulrika. She looks great to me.

"Having my moles, skin tags and thick facial hair removed
TBF this is different from having lip fillers or your no. 11s botoxed"

Why?, these are all naturally occurring skin issues. Why is it ok to remove some and not others.

As for Prunella Scales, she had a face lift in her 40's.

The picture of the four actresses that is being discussed, is still judging the Women on looks, which is subjective, so you've got to suit yourself, because someone somewhere will always criticise.

Helen Mirren has refused to deny that she's had anything done, but a few surgeons have said, on examination, that she must have.

It's the Actresses that are forced into the perpetual 'eye candy' roles, that seem put into the position of needing to go to extremes.

It's not usual not to raise your eyebrows or draw them in at all during an animated recounting of an experience. It's not usual to widen your eyes or to widen your nostrils slightly to compensate for the lack of movement.

If you've had Botox, you'll know (or your practitioner should have told you) that the advice is basically to stop frowning because, well, that makes the frown lines disappear. It is not Botox that prevents faces from moving, as you imply here. It's people trying not to reverse its effects by cracking their skin again.

There's actually a line of thought that runs thus: it's known that your facial expression affects your mood. Force yourself to smile, and you do start feeling better. So after Botox, as you try to train yourself to frown less, you may well find your mood is lifting. Not quite as simple as "having Botox makes you happy", but something to think about.

Personally, I think it's far more likely that having had Botox yourself, you're hyper alert to trying to spot it in other people, and perhaps oversensitive to when you think someone isn't expressing themselves the way you think they should be. As Anais Nin said, we don't see things the way they are, we see them the way we are. I do wonder if you're on the same hyper alert for brow movement in 65 year old male truckers.

Honestly I don't judge those who like to have Botox, I'd be a massive hypocrite if I did so, I just think that the whole thing is a little passé.

Well, there's an inherent judgment in that sentence; women who have Botox not only are unnatural looking, they're also out of style. Guilty on the final count, I have never given a toss about fashion. As for the Botox, nobody ever noticed, not even my husband. And my job now involves a lot of face to face rapport building. I'm under the impression I do it quite well. Perhaps you would guess I had Botox 18 months ago. I don't think you would.

For my part, my only regret about the various procedures I've had is that I didn't do them ten years sooner. I hugely regret all that time I spent feeling ugly and ruining my prospects over it because I thought it would be some moral failing to get the work done.

Ugh, I am too thick to post tonight. "Because that will make the frown lines REAPPEAR", of course. Bah. Next procedure, brain transplant.

I wouldn't guess that you had Botox eighteen months ago, that would be impossible after all the effects last six months at most.

For complete transparency I administer Botox so I have more than a rudimentary understanding of its effects; Botox inhibits the nerves from communicating with each other, this inhibits movement in the corresponding muscles and is why botulinum toxin type 'A', your common or garden Botox, Azzalure etc is known as a neurotoxin.

It has nothing to do with a desire not to 'crack the skin again' you physically can't move those muscles as the nerves which usually instruct them to contract are paralysed.

And for posterity I have no moral judgement of people who continue to use botox, it isn't a moral issue but an aesthetic one.

Botox has been ruined by its own ubiquity, it's a shame.

Helen Mirren has DEFINITELY had stuff done. It's really obvious. Emma Thompson doesn't look like she has had any, and she looks good. Nicole Kidman has had stuff done, and looks super weird, and Kristin Scott Thomas has clearly had some procedures done too. (Even if she says she hasn't!)

I saw Denise Van Outen today on some naff advert with Kara Tointon and Alicia Dixon, and Denise looked SO ODD. Like she was struggling to smile properly. She has DEFINITELY had something done to her face.

Having moles and skin tags and facial hair removed like @PoorYorick did, is not the same as botox and collagen and facelifts. Nothing like the same.

I bet she looks and feels better for it though.

A friend of mine had 2 moles removed last year. One off her neck, and one off the side of her cheek - both about the size of an averaged sized button, (like the size of the mole on the face on the pic attached.) My friend is 43, and had always been bothered by them. She got them removed privately. Only cost about £400 altogether.

I have to say, she looks better without them.

Helen Mirren was snapped with this telltale bandage around her face. So she's most likely had a facelift but she hasn't alien-icised (real word) her face with endless procedures and fillers and things.

Diane Keaton was on Graham Norton's show a few months ago and looked amazing. She didn't look like she's had anything done and of she has had something done it's been really subtle. She's always looked so uniquely stylish that I don't think a Hollywood face would appeal to her.

I don't know. I guess I will always think it is a strange thing to do, these days I work in a team which uses Botolph for certain disabilities (don't inject it myself). Obviously the amounts used are vast compared to a bit in the skin but the effects and side effects are so huge that I can't really imagine using it for less significant things. I find it in slightly awe- inspiring drug tbh.

The post above from a person who has a whole circle who do this sort of thing and finds it weird to go somewhere else in the UK where everyone is saggy and wrinkly not a user made me think of the Hunger Games tbh. The brutal fact is that individual choices, however benign, do have an effect on the world as a whole. No woman is an island.

I agree @squoosh

Although I said it's obvious that Mirren has had stuff done, she still actually looks OK and doesn't look half as weird as some (famous) women half her age.

Do you mean botox @annadale (not botolph?)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Helena Bonham Carter. She stated on Woman's Hour that she would not get work done as it affected her ability to act. I'm 45 and she is my hero for that statement alone.

I give you age 51.

I'll raise you an airbrush

Yes, likely and her about and about pictures are very natural ATM. Still no pout or shiny face.

Still wondering what BOTOLPH is??? (From annadale's post.)

@Paleinteresting

I have to agree. Helena Bonham Carter is stunning, and doesn't look like she has had anything done. Same as Emma Thompson. Good genes, and naturally pretty, so they don't need anything doing.

Helena look more like 38/39 than 51. And Emma looks mid 40's rather than 58. They both look way better than some famous younger women who have had stuff done (like the TOWIE and Geordie Shore stars.) Some of them look a hot mess, and 10 years older than they actually are.