to be freaked out by the frozen, filled faces littering our media

[PhelanGood]

Seriously. And I bet they all think nobody can tell! Will this trend ever end?

I'm often too distracted by the botoxed plumped juvedermed visages on display, to concentrate on what the bearer of said face is actually saying! Doesn't help that they can no longer engage viewers with natural facial expressions.

I find it fascinating and alarming that paying to have the world's deadliest poison injected into you is becoming the norm, especially when all it achieves is a face that doesn't move, and ultimately a weakening of the muscles, which surely are the thing we should be strengthening to prevent wrinkles long term..!? And concentrating on eliminating toxins!

(Obviously I'm not talking about its medicinal uses such as preventing migraines.)

Fillers are even worse, they look absolutely repugnant to me. Especially in the lips! Who wants to kiss a pair of plumped up plastic lips that look like you've had an allergic reaction.

Am I being unreasonable, and am I alone in finding this trend so disturbing and weird... do I need to get with the times? Are injectables just today's "whalebone corsets"? It's got to a point where I actually adore seeing lovely wrinkled faces on the screen as it's so rare now.

With regard to Loose Women Andrea McLean is open about having Botox - shame she cannot get a personality injected at same time. (Miaow!) Not sure that Linda Robson, Gloria Hunniford, Anne Diamond, Kaye Adams have had anything done. We will gloss over Katie Price...Nadia S looks natural too. Janet Street Porter is 70 - she hasn't had anything done. She has shitloads of confidence and great hair though!

Anyone who has had Botox knows that it's hardly "one dose / style fits all." Everyone's face is different - some people have very strong forehead muscles so tend to raise their eyebrows a lot so get more horizontal forehead lines; others frown more or some are more prone to crows feet due to squinting.
Every time I've been, the doctor gets me to frown as hard as I can and then raise my eyebrows as much as possible so they observe how your individual face moves. They ALWAYS err on the side of caution re- dosage. You have to wait 12 days to see full results - if you're not happy you can go back for a top up. Everyone responds differently. The first time I had it, I couldn't see any difference at all after 12 days, so I went back for a bit more. I have never had a frozen forehead and always have movement - just very reduced lines. I've never had any round the eyes as I don't get lines there, so can't comment on that.

To the people saying it can make your lower face look older - I guess that is possible to an extent. I think if your lower face was quite aged or you had noticeable eye bags or something, they would probably recommend other treatments rather than Botox. In my experience, all practitioners are trained to look at the whole face, not parts of it. For instance, they won't do Botox anywhere near the eyebrow area if you're prone to dropping eyelids, etc.
As I said, I know loads of women who have Botox in this part of London and none of us look like freaks. Nobody is trying to look younger - just the best version of ourselves. When I see people with rough, wrinkled skin, I just think - why? There is absolutely no need these days.

About a year ago, I had one sixth of a teaspoon of Restayn or Juvaderm (can't remember which) to the lines between my nose and mouth which were not actually that heavy, but I was noticing them more. These products actually stimulate the production of collagen under your skin and are broken down naturally over the course of up to a year. I could barely notice any difference tbh, but I don't notice the lines like I used to.

If someone asked me if I had Botox I would just say yes, but nobody ever has.

Also I have met Amanda Holden and she looks gorgeous in real life. She looks very "done" on TV due to make-up and lighting, but that's true for anyone.

When I see people with rough, wrinkled skin, I just think - why? There is absolutely no need these days.

Really? Do you live such a bubble of affluence that it doesn't occur to you that Botox is just unthinkable for most people, for so many reasons, money being one of them?

Zadig - Nobody is trying to look younger - just the best version of ourselves. When I see people with rough, wrinkled skin, I just think - why? There is absolutely no need these days.

How does 'unlined' ='best'? Genuinely interested to hear your logic.

To answer on their behalf, the reason their skin is wrinkled is that they are going through the natural ageing process, decrease in collagen production, exposure to sunlight etc. That is why. And rough skin is due to genes, or having priorities other than moisturising and exfoliating. Neither rough nor wrinkled skin is a health risk.
Some people have other things they would prefer to spend their money on.
How sad that all you see when you look at the natural face of a woman, confident enough with herself to choose her natural looks over painful injections of neurotoxins, is 'Why? There's no need for that nowadays! '

Do you feel the same about people with huge noses, that because rhinoplasty exists they should all conform to media standard of beauty? What about women who don't shave their underarms?

And us who think the treatments can look robotic are being accused of misogyny!

What I don't like is that is becoming the norm. We see it on tv and in movies. Now if you look like you have a normal 'lived in' face as an actor you may not get the parts. This is filtering down to the masses.
I think it's such a shame that it is normalised.

I think the language around this is interesting. Clinics - and users too - don't talk so much about about looking younger any more. They use words like 'fresher' and 'less tired'. (Whatever happened to going to bed early?)

There seems to be a lot of fear of looking cross too which fascinates me. I have never in my life heard a man say he was worried about looking angry.

@Amixedblessing - I couldn't agree more. It's also a massive shame as actors who arent over "done", whose faces move freely, naturally portray emotion better - and I for one find it easier to identify with them if they don't look plastic.

Never mind the anachronisms that come with seeing botoxed, filled faces acting in a time or place when the treatments didn't even exist!

@Floisme
The laughter lines on my face got a hearty outing reading your post :D maybe some folk use the treatments to try and disguise an unhealthy lifestyle with bad habits such as smoking, not sleeping and eating rubbish...

I think it's also a deliberate move on the part of the industry to normalise it. I mean something that makes you look 'fresh' and 'rested' .... well who could possibly object to that?

Yes Floisme definitely! Ironically all these adverts thrive on causing a stress in people that wasn't there before by encouraging them to look at their faces critically, as something that needs fixing, instead of actually trying to tackle the root cause of why they look tired. It's the opposite of healthy, an industry that masks underlying problems instead of dealing with them!

Or maybe I'm overthinking this a tad.

I mean there are people out there who do always look tired when they aren't, due to eyebags etc - it must be frustrating that people assume theyre sleepy and make judgements on their character/ability based on this. Perhaps this is some people's reasoning for getting treatments done? To make them look more like they feel inside? -I still think there are usually better ways-

HeyRoly - there are countless posts here asking why in earth anyone would have Botox etc, so I was just trying to give the opposite perspective of why wouldn't you if you can afford to?
It's like anything else, there is no need to go to extremes at all.
Of course, if you can't afford it, then that's another issue, but we weren't talking about affordability.

Philan - I am not accusing you of misogyny. I do wonder why you care so much about something you obviously have no intentions of doing though.
It's like someone who is very proud of their grey hair making a fuss about someone who colours their hair.
Of course having lines or whatever is part of the natural ageing process and if you want to just go with it, fair enough. But it doesn't make you any more virtuous than anyone else.

@PhelanGood couldn't agree with you more about the amount of cowboy filler and botox out there

You don't need any medical training at all to do the botox course - and even Drs with no specialist training can do the course and offer botox privately at beauty salons (GPs for example)

I would only ever go to a consultant plastic surgeon or dermatologist for botox - I personally went to a dermatologist, and it was important to me that they were still practising in the NHS as well as in private cosmetic practice.

She said she regularly turned people away if she felt they weren't good candidates for botox

Sadly many practitioners won't

I had rhinoplasty when I was 17 and my surgeon said he turned many many people away, who had unrealistic expectations of their surgery and were doing it for the wrong reasons (if they thought it would be the magic wand to fix other things wrong in their life)

He grilled my parents and I pretty intensely to understand psychologically why was I here in his rooms discussing this procedure - most of it was about the psychological side, rather than the medical side (that came afterwards)

I was very realistic about why I wanted my nose done - it's not uncommon for Jewish girls to have rhinoplasty at around the same age (in fact I found out not so long ago that my SIL had her nose done with the same surgeon. She didn't realise I'd had mine done, I didn't realise she'd had hers done - because our surgeon was great at not giving very obviously semitic looking girls tiny little ski jump retrousé noses). I genuinely forget I've had mine done, and if I ever tell anyone they are without fail completely astonished because there's no way to tell it's not the nose I was born with)

Any decent practitioner will advise against a procedure if they don't feel it's appropriate for the patient to be considering. Sadly many practitioners aren't so decent!

I care very much Zadig. For a few reasons.

1. I care about women. I have a young daughter who is growing up in a society in which it is becoming the norm for people to risk their health to have procedures that homogenise faces and ruin beauty in favour of a (IMO) that weird robotic look. This creates new pressures on women to feel they aren't good enough, as most people can't achieve this unlined lip-plumped chubby cheekboned look without expensive risky procedures. The same way as using unnaturally thin and tall models does. They don't necessarily look better, and most didn't get there in a healthy way, but they're being presented as the norm. To the point where people such as yourself say you find it odd when anyone does age gracefully!

2. I generally don't like looking at unnaturally plasticky, alienish or doll-like faces as much. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but it's just a personal thing. I love to see expressive faces in the media as it helps people get their point across, especially with actors as I said above. I am partially deaf so often rely on such cues to understand what's being said, so maybe am biased on this. Also looking at a done face or body and imagining the procedures often make me cringe - over inflated lips and very tightened looking or filled skin looks painful to me, the same way as looking at a wound doesn't appeal to me (I CANNOT watch injections or syringes on TV even fiction), so their faces sometimes hurt my sensibilities to look at. Only in extreme cases, admittedly!

@bananafish weirdly I'm also born in 1981, of Jewish heritage and have found your posts fascinating to read, they have made me think of things differently! The post I wrote back to you that was deleted by my stupid phone was talking about Hollywood waxes -say two people could go for the same procedure for totally different motivations (one:boyfriend pressure fro. What he's seen in porn and the second :cos she just prefers it that way). And it's the same procedure but totally different reasons. One's empowering, one's not so much - but choice always has the potential to be empowering .

If only all surgeons and doctors were as careful as the one who gave you rhinoplasty! They should separate the ones with dysmorphia, for whom the surgery will do nothing create more issues, from the ones for whom it would genuinely help them deal with a problem that is getting in the way of them living the life they should be. Looking at some of the botch jobs that are widespread now, many people who administer these procedures just have dollar signs in their eyes and prey on people's insecurities. It's terrifying

OP - I totally agree we do live in an image-driven world. Of course we do. For instance, my friend's daughter was "spotted" by modelling agencies at the age of 15 and by 18 (just finished A-levels) now models haute-couture all over the world. She would be the first to say it's crazy that she's modelling clothes that 99.9% of girls in her age bracket could never dream of being able to afford - or would actually choose to wear even if they could. Yet this is the world we live in.

I don't like looking at overdone faces either particularly, but really they are the small minority. Just over-represented on TV. I can only think of one woman I know IRL who looks a bit unnatural.

I had my teeth straightened by Invisalign after my third DC and then whitened because I got it into my head my teeth had moved a bit. People noticed the new smile far more than any Botox. Should I have just let my teeth continue to move into old age because this is "natural?"

You might think I sound high-maintenance, but it's a matter of opinion. I do invest in a good face serum and tinted moisturiser, but that's all I wear really day to day. I have never bought expensive make up - a black mascara is a black mascara. I never coloured my hair until I turned 40. I choose to now because I can see a few greys appearing. That's it.

I tell people I have Botox, just the same as if I was going to the hairdressers. Nobody gives a hoot. I got my body hair all lasered and this is very common now - the clinic told me as many men under 35 get their chests and backs done as women get their legs and underarms.

I do think you have a point that what we consider the "norm" shifts over time. I do actually think some women would rather look a bit "done" than haggard and that is the truth of the matter. Perception is relative.

Ellisandra,

"I don't want us to look at more natural (but I think still not natural) photos and say "you can still look attractive with wrinkles". I want (in my utopian vision!) for no photo of a women to be presented for judgement on her attractiveness.
I know that's unrealistic.
But I would love to look at a surgically altered woman and a natural woman and not even be thinking about how attractive they are."

Totally agree. Roll on that day.
Meantime, surely any chance of society moving more in that direction of embracing the individual for who they are, signs of ageing and all, is increased by including varied images representing that as 'the norm for many', rather than 'flaws to eradicate/ feel ashamed about'??

Stock Image Lady's pic (my 1st post) is, of course, also professionally modified, but nevertheless still shows at least some degree of variation from the swathes of unrealistic, retouched to ludicrous degree perfection we're mostly bombarded with in mainstream media.

I did find some really great, outdoors, in harsh daylight, reportage-type shots of late 30s-mid 50s sportswomen (unsmiling too...who'd have thought?), but 15 different photographers: copyright issues if posted publicly.

There are a pretty wide range of (non-model/ non-celeb) women's faces here (aged 50s upwards). Pretty telling, though, that the project's intro even needs to stress they're "...making a potent statement by showing off wrinkles":
www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/14-women-show-off-wrinkles-to-make-a-potent-statement-about-aging_us_57560b50e4b0b60682deb823

Anyone's perfectly entitled to use whatever (safe) interventions they so choose, IMO...whatever floats their boat for maximum confidence, feeling their best, self-esteem etc.
I just wish other approaches were equally valued.

Zadig - what women aren't suitable for Botox? I want my crows feet done but fear I've left it too late.

And I'm getting fillers once I've plucked up the courage

Zadig - I like hearing that you look after yourself, I'm the same - I recently got braces as an adult and don't have any problems whatsoever with people having body hair lasered or wearing make up! I'm a self confessed product junkie too, have regular facials and always have my nails and toes professionally done. I've used expensive moisturiser and sunblock since the age of 12, taking a job through uni to afford such luxuries! I see a difference between doing these to look my best, keep my skin healthy and give myself a boost - and using injectables under my skin to paralyse it, or fill bits of it, the thought of which makes my skin crawl n it surely can't be healthy... The results are not predictable either. Even celebs with access to the best surgeons often step out with what I'd class as botch jobs.

You're spot on - many ageing women would prefer to look 'done' than haggard - that says a lot about the world we live in. If someone is actually disfigured in some way, I get why they would use botox. Their disfigurement might distract people from what they are saying or people might make assumptions about them and treat them differently (ie if they look really tired all the time or have burns all over their face, I dunno). But people who get it done because they want to look younger, erase natural lines, and basically don't like the way older/ lined women are treated in our society? Well ageing is NOT a disfigurement, it's something to be proud of and I believe their feeling the need to do this often says something sad about our society.

The trend for it is causing younger and younger people to feel disfigured when they aren't, like poor Kylie Jenner who was told by some ignoramus of a man that her normal lips were oddly thin. She admits this is what set her off on the path she followed

It doesn't usually make them look younger as you say, just ageless - if they want this look you're right it is up to them. Thanks to all people who have written from the 'other side' to challenge my assumptions,its interesting to read!

Absolutely love your post Thalia ♥

Stevie - I would just say go to a reputable clinic (or two) and have a consultation as everyone is individual. Go away and think about it before you commit. Be wary of anyone trying to "upsell" you. Botox is not permanent and in most cases has worn off after 6 months, so if you don't like the results, no need to go there again!

Why do you get your toe nails 'professionally done'?

Did you say you're mid 30s? Get back to me about the beauty of ageing in, say, 20 years time 😀

You choose to waste money on expensive facials and moisturisers. Here's beautiful Julia Roberts natural look and here's her photoshopped to the hilt in order to convince people to buy those expensive products.

My last post was to OP.

Thanks, Zadig - don't know how to find someone reputable as I live Not in London and don't know anyone who'll admit to having work done!

Phelan - I guess I just take a different approach because it annoys me that there are so many creams and potions promising "youth" when really they are all the same chemicals in different packaging, aimed at women of all stages of life and income groups. I just don't buy the marketing.
I might not have Botox for evermore but it works for me right now. I have it about once every 8 months.

Stevie - have a google and anywhere you go ask to see the main doctor in the practice, just to be on the safe side.