To file a complaint about the 111 advisor?

[holelottachange]

Called 111 as dd had pains in chest. I would have called the gp if it wasn't the weekend but thought it best to call them as dd was saying her chest hurt and I got into a panic about it. After giving away tons of info I wait for someone to call me back. 2 and a half hours later I get a call. By this point dd is acting completely normal jumping around and singing. I had since learnt she'd swallowed a sharp chip which I gathered was what had caused the pain. I explain this to the woman but she insists I take dd to a and e. Our nearest is 30 miles away and I can't drive. I also have a 18 month old with no one to watch him and it was getting dark. I told her this and she said I needed to get dd to a and e within the next hour or else she would be taking this further. When I questioned what she meant she said it was a safeguarding issue which she would take up if I didn't get dd to a and e within an hour. I told her my situation and that I couldn't afford a taxi for 30 miles there and 30 miles back. I told her dd was fine now but I would call gp first thing if she had any more pains. She wasn't taking none of this and demanded I gave her the name of my partner ( who is away working in Cornwall) and other personal details like the name of dd school etc. She made me feel so useless. She abruptly ended the call and I'm feeling a bit shell shocked. Should I make a complaint? Or am I in the wrong?

When will under qualified people stop using ss as a stick to bear people with?! So annoying, pointless and makes people scared of ss.

Yes, they seem to be a bogeyman used by idiots like this to scare parents into compliance. Of course this is counter productive as the population at large now regard social services as some sort of kiddy snatch squad who will tear your sobbing child from your grasp under cover of darkness after an unconfirmed report you gave them a froot shoot at the park.

BTW OP, during one of the times I have called 111 I had a very similar scenario to you. The operator wasn't as arsey but was very insistent I take DD to pit of hours miles away, or A&E and it certainly sounded like it the conversation was going to head in that direction. I just told her we were going and thanked her for her time. Then went back to bed.

111 said they were going to report dd (in a nice way) for safeguarding as she took an overdose and they have to. However they also said they'd get a doctor to ring me back to advise me (this was following a nurse ring back) what to do.

Never got a phone call back from a doctor so no advice on what to do.

I complained. Someone very senior emailed and rang me the day of my complaint (to make sure dd hadn't died, they were panicking) and promised to investigate.

Outcome of investigation was that they couldn't find any record of me ever contacting 111. . Which is odd because they rang me back at one point!

That's truly shocking. I hope your DD is well now

This happened to my sister. She did her her DC to A&E who surprisingly were unamused and sent her home. Yes she probably should have ignored 111 but she was worried about the consequences.

That's why on the only occasion I've rang 111, I didn't give any personal details. That way there can be no record linkage. The reason they asked for school name was so they can report it to the school nurse, which is where all safeguarding reports are centrally accumulated. Perhaps you can contact the school nurse and advise them of the situation to pre-empt the malicious report they will be receiving?

Thanks for all your replies. I received another call at 1:30 last night (woke me up and scared me half to death!) it was a doctor this time. She was complete contrast to the previous caller. I explained about dd and how she is fine now and her reply was that's great to hear and that I should call gp surgery for an appointment today to get dd checked over. I didn't bother telling her about the previous caller as I didn't want to waste her time and look ungrateful for their services. I will be calling the gp today just to be on the safe side. Dd is up now though and completely fine.

Perhaps it would be a good idea if you attended a first aid course so you feel more confident dealing with your DC's illnesses / routine situations.

I didn't want to waste her time and look ungrateful for their services

You should have told her. Otherwise they have no way of monitoring and improving the service.

You won't be wasting her time, that is part of her job and GPs also get fed up of the bureaucracy and red tape that impede them and their colleagues from doing their job.

You won't look ungrateful for the services either; 111 wasn't her idea, she isn't a volunteer and someone could receive wrong advice that ends up killing them.

It's not like complaining that the range of activities offered at Brownies isn't to your taste, is it? That would be ungrateful.

In these instances, it's how you present it that's important.

I once had a similar situation with my mother, who would be classified as a vulnerable adult: she had injured her ankle and she had ticked their boxes because she was on Warfarin. However, it was obvious she was not in danger because the injury had in fact happened over 24 hours earlier - I'd only phoned because my mother was making a bit of a fuss about it and I'd tried and completely failed to get her into the car to get her to a Minor Injuries unit. 111 were very insistent that she had to get to A&E despite me explaining all this, but when I said that it was only conceivably going to be possible if they sent an ambulance they became strangely less enthusiastic. Eventually they arranged for a doctor to call back who fully agreed that A&E was unnecessary and succeeded in reassuring my mother, and I heard no more about it.

You should have told her. Otherwise they have no way of monitoring and improving the service.
No point telling the doctor. I'm sure they're well aware of how useless they are. They'll be someone, somewhere whose job it is to deal with complaints. Write to them.

You should have told her as this will still go over to your child's school now

There's another thread about A&E misuse at the moment. Why can a perfectly competent parent not look at their child and see they are not particularly unwell? Why was the question re sharp chip not asked before calling 111? Why then seeing child continued to be well were they still taken A&E? Certainly 111 were using an algorithm and couldn't see the child like her mother could.
Agree a first aid course might be useful as might a degree of common sense about children's complaints of pain and illness.

The two call handlers go through different systems. Call handler number 1 is not medically trained, and follows a flow chart that gives them an answer. Call handler two is medically trained to some degree- advanced call handler or nurse. They go through a second more in depth system. The flow chart then gives them the answer. They are not supposed to deviate from the chart. The computer gave them an answer, and that is the 'correct' (allegedly) advice. They theoretically could flag you to social services if they believed the child was in danger, but as others have saidX they don't check or record who actually does go to hospital. Just end the call with thank you I'll do that right away and the issue is Di e. If you tell them no chance I am not doing that, then theoretically your refusal can cause a follow up under their duty Of care guidelines. Can't really blame the call handlers following the rules, I don't believe it deserves a complaint.

Obviously the best way to deal with these people is just give them false information, tell them what they want to hear, then do what you want to do

For all the posters saying the OP should do a first aid course, I have done several and none have covered chest pains (chip related or otherwise!)

My DP called 111 recently when I had a very bad case of mastitis (crying, in agony and a rising temp of 40). He called them to ask when he should take me to A&E re the temperature if we couldn't control it at home. They wouldn't listen properly and kept asking questions related to me having a heart attack. Anyway after about half an hour we managed to convince them that my pain was in my BREAST and not my CHEST and that it was mastitis. They said a doctor would call for a chat. A locum doctor called and told me off for wasting their time and that they wouldn't come and see me "just for that"! I told them that we had simply called 111 to ask for advice about my temperature and that at no point had we requested a home visit. The whole episode left me feeling crap to be honest - post c-section and ill, it was the last thing I needed. I will never call them again!

I used to work for 111. The person who called you back wasn't a call handler. She was most likely a nurse or clinical advisor, as they were called when I was there.
I would complain tbh. She should've just sent out an ambulance if she thought your DD was in danger, not threatened you with SS. It's not like you can magic a ride to A&E out of thin air.
Also - no point telling the doctor about previous caller. The doctor is most likely in your local OOH and has nothing to do with the call centre where the nurse is located.

So it was serious enough to require a visit to an A&E but not serious enough for them to reply in less than 2 1/2 hours?

I hate 111. They're fucking useless. They've told me to take my son to A&E SO many times when I know he doesn't need to be there. I thought the whole point of them was to reduce unnecessary strain on the already over-strained NHS?

OK, I'm a bit confused. What do people expect 111 to do? They've can't magic cures, they can't prescribe etc. Their only options are to reassure and tell you it's nothing to worry about or to arrange medical care. They suggest A&E as a form of medical care because they felt it was necessary - what outcome from your call would you have liked.

I called 999 when 8 year old DS had collapsed was semi-conscious with blue lips and they wouldn't send an ambulance. A couple of years later I rang OOH for advice when he got a fishbone stuck in his throat (was absolutely fine, talking, just complaining he could fell it pricking his throat) and they sent an ambulance - despite my offering to take him to A&E (within 10 mins drive). Paramedics weren't impressed with me until I told them the situation. They couldn't reach said fishbone so we went to A&E on their advice (to be told there was no fishbone there).

No consistency at all.

No consistency at all

You don't speak to the same people at 999 as you do at OOH, or 111, or NHS Direct. They use different systems, different skill levels, different qualifications and different methods of prioritising calls.

If the 111 advisor was that concerned, she should have called an ambulance, instead of bullying op. Yes I would complain, appealling.