to think you can't spoil a baby?

[QueenNefertitty]

I'll keep this brief:

Live with DM and 1 yo DS.

DS is breastfed on demand, cosleeps with me, and I baby wear. Not a holier than thou choice - just what works for me. He is also very inquisitive, a bit of a 'bull in a china shop' and going through a phase of throwing his food on the floor/being 'into' everything.

I of course, tell him not to do things which are dangerous or might hurt himself or other people, and am trying to install good manners and consideration in him - but am mindful that at one year old, he doesn't really give a shiny shit. I consider it more 'laying the groundwork' and don't honestly at this stage expect him to modify his behaviour - I just need to distract or refocus him.'

DM has just told me that DS is becoming 'spoiled' because I offer him a second course at dinner, regardless of whether he ate the first or threw it on the floor (cheese, a small piece of cake, fruit, yogurt - whatever's in the fridge), he goes limp in your arms and throws himself on the floor if you remove him from something (the washing machine, the stairs etc) and he took another child's water cup at nursery. She also (mostly silently) disapproves of the cosleeping, ongoing breastfeeding and baby wearing. She doesn't comment outright, but does make little remarks like 'oh God not more booby!' or 'he'll be fine in the pram - why are you using the baby carrier?!' (when we're going somewhere with lots of 'off-road' bits).

I was a bit upset by her comment about him being spoiled - I think spoiled children are awful, and would hate for him to be thought of as such. I consider the examples she gave as normal parts of child development, and figure he's too young for these things to be manipulative or indicative of a spoiled nature.

DM says I'm being overly sensitive for being upset about what she said, it's just 'what people say abut kids doing that stuff' and that she doesn't believe in all of this 'child development research rubbish anyway'.

AND YET she brings him home a new toy or gift pretty much twice a week (that isn't spoiling him though... that's just stimulating his development.... that she doesn't believe in)

AIBU to feel a bit upset and slightly attacked? Or am I taking it too much to heart/ too seriously?

( full disclosure - I'm a newly single mother, so am quite tender about my parenting at the moment...)

Do your worst, AIBU bearpit!

In 1974, when I was a VERY young single mum with my first baby, cuddling and breast feeding etc, a NURSE - yes, a nurse - told me that 'you'll spoil that baby'. I was livid. I knew she was wrong and coming from all sorts of opinions that were wrong for me (just plain wrong in my book). You sound like a lovely mum, who knows what she's doing.

My baby is now 43 and has two children of her own, and she's a fantastic mother and not at all a spoilt person, never has been.

Do you have to live with your mum? I'd be itching to move out if I were you. You don't need undermining like that.

He's a toddler not a baby. You'll be setting him and yourself up for ill health if you give him second portions when he isn't hungry, and don't encourage him to sleep on his own.

I offer fruit and yogurt after pretty much every meal regardless of how much DS eaten of his main course, sometimes he eats it, sometimes he doesn't. Babies are pretty good at regulating their intake so I wouldn't worry about that to be honest.

DS is 15 months and I do say no quite firmly when he does something he shouldn't and I think it's starting to go in a bit. Early days though!

It sounds like you're doing a grand job OP, I'd try not to take what your DM says to heart.

I disagree with most posters here about the food thing. I wouldn't like someone else choosing what I eat at all of my meals. Why should children "put up and eatshut up" with someone else's choices?

You'll be setting him and yourself up for ill health if you give him second portions when he isn't hungry, and don't encourage him to sleep on his own.

Ah yes. The old "adults can enjoy the comfort of sleeping with another person but not a small child" point of view.

It's bollocks. Children will choose to sleep alone when they're ready. No need to force it unless cosleeping is causing actual issues.

Thanks all.

I know the food thing is divisive... I'm trying to foster good habits on appetite regulation, and wide ranging tastes ... he's just very independent and if he's finding a food tricky to self-feed/ doesn't like it especially he'll chuck it on the floor...

I absolutely know the difference between him getting bored and being full. And that kid will not eat when he doesn't want to. So please don't think I'm forcing food on him.

@nuttynoo - the ONLY thing I do that I don't feel a need to second guess myself is bedsharing: if you can point me to some solid evidence to back up your point, that as a nonsmoking, non drugtaking, sober, breastfeeding mother, im endangering mine and my sons long term health, I'll move him into his own room tomorrow. You can come help me build the cot

You'll be setting him and yourself up for ill health if you give him second portions when he isn't hungry, and don't encourage him to sleep on his own.

Nuttynoo, how exacty does sharing a bed set you up for ill health?

rolled on the thighs of virgins roared laughing at this.

I don't think she's crazy or nasty, she's just from a different era. I had my first almost a decade ago and cry it out was popular and I was told to start weaning at 4 months, I'd never heard of a baby wrap and next to me cribs didn't exist, things just change. (Just to clarify, I don't agree with cry it out but I do try and let my newest try and self-soothe in her next to me crib and I bloody love a good routine)

You can't spoil a baby, but I have to agree that a one year old is on the cusp of baby/toddler. I think it depends on the baby. My first could walk and count to 10 by one and she understood no. My second was still very much a baby at baby at that age and could only say "all done!"

Probably not going to like this comment but I would start thinking about sleeping separately. Unless you're happy to continue co-sleeping in the long term of course. But could be tricky when you meet a new partner. Sounds like you're being a fantastic mum OP

But could be tricky when you meet a new partner.

What if she meets someone who knows that sex can happen somewhere other than a bed at nighttime?

I'm howling at the thought of EVER meeting anyone else I want to shag. Still very much love exDP, our relationship just didn't work. Both had lots of therapy and still no dice. Tragic really.

Anyway- if DS is still in my bed when I'm (finally) ready to date, like in a decade? or so, you may well have a point that it's time to move DS out. And not just so I can have shag my new bloke.

I'm painting a very bonny picture of myself here, I know...

@Titty

If you happen to know such a man, and he can hang on a few years for me to sort my shit out, send him my way

YANBU. I breastfeed, co-sleep and baby wear my 16 month old DD. I also work full time and she is in a mix of childcare (childminder and my DM). DD does all of the things you describe DS to do, as do all other toddlers I know, including the formula fed, cot riding, independent sleeping ones.

Normal toddler behaviour as far as I see it. We do the same in regards to saying no and reinforcing boundaries and distracting. I view it as ground work too, in the sense that she might understand "no" but not the consequences or reasons behind the "no" so is still going to explore those boundaries.

I agree that having a spoilt, bad mannered child is one of my fears for DD so I'm hyper aware of trying to teach her manners, consideration and empathy. I think if you have this at the forefront of your mind (which clearly from your post you do) then you will naturally make that important and pass that message to DS. Sounds like you're doing bloody great, especially dealing with a breakup and living with DM

OP, just do what you feel is right for and your DS. The older baby/toddler stage is bloody hard work and quite frankly if breastfeeding and cosleeping gets you through it then just carry on.

It must be very hard having to live with your DM when you feel she doesn't necessarily agree with your approach to parenting. Smile and nod as much as you can and just do what you feel is best for you and DS.

For the love of God stop using the phrase 'babywearing' though. It's got to be the twattiest parenting buzzword ever invented.

Other than that you sound lovely and YANBU at all.

I did all the things you are doing so not in any way coming from a different era (my youngest is nearly10 and co slept until 7) and your son sounds like a very typical one year old (which I still consider a baby) You said he is "inquisitive" and a "bull in a China sop" which isn't unusual at all, but is your DM perhaps trying to tell you that you are not doing enough to try to limit damage? When mine were young I wouldn't have let them be inquisitive in someone else's house however I have seen lots of mums these days who do very little or nothing to prevent their children wrecking being curious. A mum came to visit me and "supervised" whilst her toddler threw Dh's academic papers onto the floor. They were on top of a bureau out of reach and he kept pointing up to them and "going limp" so she lifted him up, he swiped them off with his hands, she picked them up and the procedure started all over again. She told me that she had no choice as he was going to tantrum otherwise . To me she was spoiling him by encouring this behaviour.

One thing I was and always will be firm about is throwing food. I really can't abide by disrespecting food this way. When mine did this they learned that they wouldn't get any more food unless I fed them. You need to bear in Mind this is her house you are staying in and respect the rules that she may have.

Tittygolightly you are right of course, I'm giving away my rather vanilla sex life aren't I

OP don't give up, I fell in love 7 months after my divorce (hence DC3, who knew I'd be mental enough to have 3)

Nope, you definitely can't spoil a baby. My DD was super high maintenance, screamed blue murder unless she was being breast fed or cuddled. Even the midwife described her as 'sensitive ' at a few days old. It was hard going, I was ill with PND and PTSD and almost phobic about her crying, so I simply didn't put her down. She was held constantly until she was 5 months old (when I had to put her down cos I felt like my arms were about to fall off!) and breast fed until 16 months.

If anybody could possibly have spoiled a baby it would have been me - but she's 9 now and is a great kid - cheerful, chilled out, kind and not at all spoilt. And she's an only child, and you know how spoilt some people think they are! (Which is bollocks, by the way!)

I think your mum has different opinions on how to raise babies which are more relevant to her child rearing days.
With food if he's just throwing or dropping stuff stop giving any more with no reaction. Breastfeeding on demand fine, I kind of enforced twice a day with work, babywearing-fine. If baby and you are happy all good. He's 1 not 4 and I bet things will change in 6 months time.
I don't think you are spoiling him at all.

What does "baby wear" mean?!

A one year old is absolutely a baby - of course, that's going to mean different things to different people but IMO you're still responsible for his behaviour, not him. I think your groundwork approach is spot on. A little bit of freedom to allow him to start learning but ultimately the buck stops with you and there's not much point expecting him to use common sense or initiative or even to remember rules from one situation to another, especially if something about the situation has changed, so distraction and redirection is usually the most productive technique all around.

If pudding is healthy/nutritious food then there's no need to withhold it if he doesn't eat the main. If you like you could even offer both alongside. Babies don't seem to mind and he might go back to the "main" and have a bit more. IMO at this age it's about encouraging a positive attitude towards food and the idea that mealtimes are something to look forward to, not an ordeal or a battle or a test of any kind.

Try to let the comments about co-sleeping, babywearing etc bounce off and try not to take it too personally or as an attack. People are just trying to help even though it can feel personal. I think I was far too bothered by what others thought about those things at the time and it spoiled the time a bit, because I was constantly on guard waiting for the next comment, and it even caused me to immediately reject things rather than asking myself (e.g.) "Hmm - well - would he be alright in the pram?" and then either "No, I was right - the steps and the mud will be a pain" or "Yes the pram would work this time and if it matters to Mum then why not - actually it will be nice for her to push him". It's almost as though I was scared that to even consider another suggestion would mean I had to do it that way, when it wasn't the case at all!

FWIW I think this can be especially hard if you've recently come from a relationship where you felt that your opinions or ideas were regularly belittled or ignored or just not valued. It's like now you're away from that situation you feel quite fiercely that you need to make your own decision and nobody will get in the way of that or tell you that you're wrong, but actually if you take the time to breathe and recognise that they are just making a suggestion they think is helpful, not dictating, you can also remind yourself that you're allowed to take the suggestion into account and still make your own decision, and it's actually quite good practice to pit that suggestion against your initial idea and see what your logic tells you, because your gut can be quite reactionary. At least I think this is what was going on for me, and it's magnified by a general anxiety about early parenthood and feeling like you have to get everything 100% perfectly right all the time which isn't only impossible, it's also not beneficial.

You'll do just fine :) And so will your baby.

Do what you need to do to make it feel right.
Can someone please tell me what baby wearing is? You wear clothes, not another human. Is it putting your baby in a sling/ carrier?

Yeah it's using slings and carriers. I mean you can get technical but that's all it is. It's internet lingo which is presumably why OP used it rather than any aspirations of anything in particular.

To answer the title of your thread, it depends what you mean by "baby" and "spoil". Children do learn "cause and effect" so they'll do x or y because they know it gets A or B result. That's not necessarily manipulative but they are getting their way.

As for the throwing food, you are giving him ammunition (literally) so giving him more without telling him off for throwing it seems pretty useless. He's too young to be "punished" by not eating though and he won't necessarily understand that throwing food = no more/starving and I'm not sure I'd want that anyway!

I know not ALL children go stiff when taken from something they want, or take things from other people, but he's 1. I know one child who did it and he WAS spoilt and he did it because he was used to getting his own way and his mum would just let him go when he went limp. So perhaps your son is headed towards spoilt, and he's not too young to start learning manners, but it's not instant so he's going to have a learning curve either way!

p.s. Take her comments on board and decide whether you agree with them or not. If you do, great. If you don't, great.

I don't think you're 'spoiling' him but I do think it's good to set boundaries and establish routines for bedtimes, naptimes and mealtimes. My (now toddler) is much calmer with a routine and after sleep training- I can now put her in the cot, say goodnight and she falls asleep, instead of an hour of faffing around followed by tantrums and an hour of breastfeeding! I wish I'd done this earlier.

I'm firm about some things now eg no throwing food, hair washing is not optional, if she runs off she gets strapped into the buggy.

I think baby wearing is sensible and practical until they can walk well. I wore mine until she was about a year old (when she got too heavy to carry comfortably).

You absolutely cannot spoil a baby, or any child, with love and affection. I bfd and ds was in our bed and that worked for us. I didn't particularly want to bf for so long or consleep but he had other ideas and it worked so that's what we did.

Having said that - he's one, so he's heading towards toddlerhood if he's not there already. Food flinging needs to be met with a firm gentle no every single time. Rigidity tantrums need to be genty but firmly addressed (I ignore as long as he's safe, do the whole 'I know you're angry, but we don't xxx - when you're finished I'm here for a cuddle" then when he's finished we have a cuddle and I remind him not to xxx. It takes a long time, but gentle firm No-ing, distraction, natural consequences (if you throw that again it's not coming back, if you keep doing that we can't stay in the cafe) etc etc are I think they way to go.

Boundaries are important for healthy emotional development- of course when they're tiny you just do what they need but as they become more autonomous then freedom within a boundary they understand is good. They push against it and your reactions are very important in helping them develop a framework to behave, relate to others etc.

Your problem is that you live with your mother.
Not your parenting choices.
Where is the child's father?

If you are old enough to have a child then you are old enough to maintain a home independent of your own parents.