How do I stop this awful reaction?

[guilty100]

Regular, but NC for this because I'm ashamed. This is less an AIBU than an "I know I'm being unreasonable, please help".

A few years back, I left a job because of endemic racism, sexism, and bullying. The culture of the place was just horrific, and I was very exploited and utterly miserable so I made the decision to quit with nothing to go to. I had something like a breakdown over it - I felt at my lowest ever and couldn't really function or get out of bed for a few months.

I am much better now, but the people I had to work with still haunt me quite a lot. When I'm out in crowds, sometimes I imagine that I see them and I feel hot and start to panic. I've never actually run into any of them since I left, but the thought that I might is something that still bothers me.

I recently heard that one of the ringleaders of the bullying died suddenly and very unexpectedly. He was the toady of a big boss who was a total racist bully, and he helped in sneaky ways to humiliate and put me down. When he died, he was still in his 30s and left behind two young children and a beautiful wife (whom I have never met). Obviously, this is absolutely tragic.

Here's the bit where I am an awful person. Cerebrally, I do feel awful for the wife and those poor children. I'm not lacking in a moral compass! But I just keep having this reaction of relief that he is gone that comes before my empathy kicks in. The guy had what I can only describe as a very "normal" face - in the sense that there are a lot of guys that look similar - and whenever I see one of these men in the crowd I get that familiar panicky sensation and then this tidal wave of relief, almost gladness, that now it can't be him.

I feel awful that I have this reaction. I know it is wrong and inappropriate, that I should have more compassion/empathy. But I don't know what to do about it. I thought it might fade, but it's been a few months now and I still get the same response. I've had extensive counselling about the workplace (and other things) but it hasn't worked to change that initial reaction. I keep reminding myself what his wife and kids must be going through, but even that doesn't work. It's always an after-thought that comes a minute after the panic/relief. It's almost like a fight-or-flight reaction, in the sense that it feels virtually instinctive and out of my control.

Has anyone been through similar? How do I stop being this awful person?

I've never heard of EMDR, I looked it up just now and read up a bit on trauma. I definitely recognise some of the symptoms. I will look into this therapy, it could be useful for this and for other things. Since I left that job, I don't really feel like I have processed it, or any other negative stuff that has happened (nothing major, but the usual negative life stuff like a minor car accident and becoming physically unwell and requiring lots of surgery). It's almost like it's stacking up like a big, increasingly precarious pile of dirty china that is going to come crashing down if I don't do something.

Before this thread, I just thought I was a dreadful person, and didn't really get further than that. Hopefully this will help me to get rid of the reaction, which will let me be more empathetic again. I've never been this kind of person before and I feel awful about myself, like I'v'e been taken over by an evil version of me.

I'm so sorry for what you went through. I think you may still have some lasting feelings of trauma that are making you hypersensitive. I lived with my stepfather for ten years and when he died I felt nothing but relief. I was 18 and didn't know what to expect, I thought some kind of grief might kick in at the last minute, but it didn't.

Tbh I don't think my mum even felt that bad and I think any sadness came from it having been a pretty awful marriage and nursing him through a chronic (and eventually fatal) illness.

You feel sad when good people die and you may even have complicated feelings about someone you didn't like much, but if someone who has treated you badly dies and you don't feel bad about it it doesn't mean you're a bad person.

Try to let some of this burden go. Don't make a pointless hairshirt for yourself.

guilty100

It's how you feel the rest of the time that matters, you are only human and feelings like you have described are very human.

You are not evil, the fact you recognise what you have proves that.

You ARE compassionate, for the greater good. Don't focus on being nice to your tormentor's side. They didn't deal with him either, the universe did.

Seems totally fine to me. Doesn't make you a bad person. It's completely normal to feel relief at someone who caused you great harm dying. It basically means he can no longer harm you and you're not going to have to worry about running across him anymore. Dear Prudence at Slate had a podcast about a similar situation this week if you want to listen to it.

I had a boss who bullied me and was truly nasty and awful. I left and found out a few years later that he'd been sacked for fraud (worked in a bank). Not the same as dying obviously but I was absolutely delighted that karma worked for once (I don't really believe in it haha). It just felt like cosmic justice.

Be kind to yourself. This man hurt you. Your feelings didn't cause him to die. Your feelings now won't hurt him or his family. You're entitled to them.

The fact you're even worrying about what this relief says about you proves you're a decent person. Be kind to yourself!

I think you need to try to stop beating yourself up and feeling guilty over this because you are doing absolutely nothing wrong. If anything, you need to allow yourself to feel that relief, accept it and even enjoy it - well, enjoy isn't the right word but allow it to be a positive feeling.

Someone who bullied you viciously will never again be able to do so and that IS a positive thing in your life and you are allowed for that to be a positive for you, no matter how it came about, no matter how negative it may be for others.

It's not like you had anything to do with how it came about, you had no control over it, you didn't even wish for it.

I think the thing that stands out here is the sheer amount of unreasonable guilt you carry with you. You have done nothing wrong here, at any point, and yet you call yourself an "awful person", you say your reactions are "wrong and inappropriate" when they are anything but.

What is "wrong and inappropriate" is you feeling this guilty but that is most definitely not YOUR fault, it speaks to me of some kind of deep seated guilt at an almost existential level which I think must be something to do with your childhood. Somehow you learned this really deep sense of guilt, and it sounds really toxic for you, and you deserve support with it.

Have you noticed how not one person is agreeing you're an awful person and that your reactions are wrong? That's because most people don't carry this level of deeply internalised (and unjustified) guilt around. Because most people can see that it's entirely reasonable and natural to feel relief that someone who made your life hell can no longer do so.

I don't know if your counselling is addressing deeper issues than the workplace bullying (which in itself sounds horrendous) but I think that's what you need to be doing. You sound so very, very hard on yourself and it would be wonderful for you to find a way to live with yourself with more kindness. You absolutely deserve it. You ARE a compassionate person - to everyone but yourself.

You're NOT an awful or dreadful person!! You actually sound far nicer than the average person.

If someone who had that kind of impact on me or a loved one died suddenly, I'd go out and buy a bottle of champagne. In fact it's not a hypothetical, because I have done that. It was delicious. And I'm not an awful person, I'm actually very nice!

The grief of his family is their business. Your feelings do not affect their grief in anyway. You say you never met them - perhaps they are relieved he died? You never know... His death doesn't absolve him of what he did. Focus on yourself and healing from what this tosser did to you.

You are compassionate. Please stop beating yourself up for it

I was bullied In my early twenties by a woman at work and she too had a very normal face and I would (and still do) 'see' her everywhere. The panic is nothing like it was almost 10 years ago but what you said is so familiar to me.

And in answer to your question. Time is a great healer. Therapy would be a good idea too.

You have sympathy and compassion for the people who matter. He doesn't matter now, he's dead.

You feel for his wife and his children and that's perfectly nice of you.

The world is overpopulated. If I had to pick, I'd rather the pleasant, non-racist people stuck around!

HAs your extensive counselling taken into account that you might possibly be suffering from PTSD? I would hope so.

As to you being a horrible person, no. No chance.

1. you don't like feeling relieved that he's dead
2. you still feel sorry for his family
3. he was a total fucking bully to you and made your life hell so it's a normal sane reaction to feel relieved that he can never touch you again.

Your reaction is not abnormal, although the fear of meeting one of your bullies on a daily basis is a bit, hence me asking about the PTSD aspect.

But as for the rest, forgive yourself - you're totally normal.

OP You asked if anyone has had similar experiences.

I have that awful feeling you describe, regarding an OW. She was a fucking nightmare toward me, and I can't go out without searching the crowd. I actually avoid some places, that are more likely. This is over 2 years on.
She hasn't died, so I don't know about that, and I did actually bump into her, a few months ago.

It doesn't make you a terrible person though. It's very understandable.

Also, regarding the PTSD, I posted at the start of the year asking for help, and it turned out I had extreme stress as a result of all that happened. May be worth looking into?

I was stalked by a neighbour when I was 16-19. I ended up moving out of home because of him!

When I heard he died it was a relief. My so called best friend from the time of the stalking told me I was an awful person for feeling like that. He made my life miserable and I do have sympathy towards his family for their loss but him... I was glad I could walk the streets safely without being scared of being grabbed and threatened with a knife like he did twice!

People have a habit of sanctifying the dead but this man was a vile bully who you won't ever have to see again, being relieved seems like a natural reaction to me. The fact that you feel bad about your feelings means you're not a terrible person, you've been through a lot please be kind to yourself.

Thanks everyone. I wrote this thread thinking I was some kind of monster and everyone would condemn me unequivocally the moment I said how I felt. I'm moved and relieved by your responses, and especially grateful to those like matilda, arousing, kity, southernnorthern and redblackberries who have shared their own experiences of a complicated emotional reaction to make me feel less alone. I know that even thinking about traumatic events in your past can make you feel bad, so I'm even more grateful you went there to help me out.

I haven't talked with my counsellor enough about this. I've been a bit tentative even mentioning it to her because I thought it was just SO awful and unforgiveable. I have brought it up, but I significantly underplayed it. I realise now that I need to raise this and get some help because I probably am having some kind of trauma/stress response. It's been a long time since I left the job, yet I still thought I saw a woman I worked with across the room in a pub the other day, and I had to find an excuse to go across the room just to check it wasn't. Clearly, some part of my brain is on the alert, looking out for them and even tricking me into thinking they are "there" when they aren't.

I worked with a bloke so bloody awful that the four of us who worked there STILL talk about him 15 years down the line.

He drive one person almost to a nervous breakdown (a six foot three strapping lad who later joined the army as a mountain warfare specialist so not exactly a wimp.)

I've spoken to my other colleagues and they all say that getting an email from him (he is still peripherally involved which is complicated and outing so I won't go into it) or seeing someone who looks like him is enough to send them into a physical panic reaction. These are solid, sensible professional people.

My point is that this is an understandable reaction. You can be well aware that his family are grieving but really to you that's not the point.

You may benefit from some talkingvtherapy or emdr- cbt is often poor quality and touted as a panacea for all ills these days. It has its place but it's not effective for many things.

In short: stop beating yourself up, this is an understandable reaction. Get some help for it if you can

Hi, I think it is perfectly natural to feel this way. think of it this way. you don't feel relief that he died. you feel relieve that there is no way he can bother you again which is reasonable considering what happened.

I worked in a very high pressure office with constant low level sexism which was particularly unbearable from one of the directors. I have since left and moved away as a result of all this. I have heard from a friend who is still there, a few months after I left, this mans wife left him for someone else. (ironically he had originally cheated on his first wife to be with this woman) he had also been avoiding tax by putting assets in her name including ownership of part of the company. As a result the company nearly went bankrupt. I have absolutely no qualms about feeling smug about this turn of events and I can do so while also feeling bad for the children involved and the (first) ex wife.

Is it the guilt that's worrying you? I think your reaction is fine and his wife and kids make get be relieved too. Someone who bullied me at work got very ill. The person who told me said "I know you won't ever believe you could feel sorry for John but..." Then described major illness. My response? "Well I don't believe in karma but if I did, I would use that as an example". The person was shocked but really, why would I feel sorry for someone who set out to destroy people?

I do agree that it's worrying that you panic thinking you might see him but hopefully that will pass. Try not to give the arseholes any more power over you.

Seriously?

Cut yourself some slack here, the guy was a monumental wanker. Good riddance. Of course I feel for his wife & children (& others who may have loved him) but I'm not sure if that should be sorrow or relief, either way I wish them all well. Him? No bloody way. The world is better off with one less wanker in it.

I think it's perfectly normal (for many of us at least) to have a bit of an emotional/physical reaction if we see, or think we see, someone who has caused us distress in the past.

However, I think yours is quite extreme and for your own sake I hope your therapist can help you reduce that reaction.

I really feel for you because your reaction to all of these things is quite normal, but you are so down on yourself about it. I hate to think what you've been through for your self esteem & self confidence to be so incredibly low. I really hope your therapist can help 🌷

Your world is better without this bully in it. That is not a feeling to be ashamed of.

There is a man who has done irreperable damage to my family. Everytime something unpleasant happens to him, I feel that, yes, there is order to the universe. It makes me feel a little satisfied. He lost his job in the spring and I thought "good" and then moved on. If/when he dies, I expect to feel that the world is a better place without him. I am not particularly interested in his family who have stood by him. Their feelings belong to them, and my feelings belong to me. I don't wish him harm anymore, but just have a quiet satisfaction when bad things happen.

We moved away from the area for many reasons, but one of the reasons was to avoid seeing him living his happy daily life without a care of what he had done to us. Talking with someone neutral was definitely helpful.

Best wishes to you.

OP, you have no reason to feel guilty for your reaction.

I was bullied and humiliated by a swimming teacher when I was at school (compulsory swimming, so not something I could get out of), amongst other issues.

I saw him a few years ago by chance and found myself crossing the road to avoid him. It brought back all kinds of awful feelings just being reminded of his existence. Those bullying incidents took place over 30 years ago and I've had a wonderful and successful life since but it all came back in a flash, such was the impact on my young life.

If I was now to find out he had died I would have no hesitation in saying I was glad.

It's often said that you shouldn't speak ill of the dead, but the fact is a twat is a twat. Dead or alive.

Don't beat yourself up over your feelings. You're absolutely within your rights to be glad he's gone.

guilty do not! He was a nasty individual, and you never know, he might have been a nasty abusive husband too, and his wife might be relieved he is gone.

It's a perfectly natural reaction, and I know how you feel

DD had a terrible time in year 10 at school from another girl. The psychological bullying made DD depressed. She started self harming and lost a lot of weight. She was referred to CAMHS. She still suffers from anxiety and is on medication for it.

I heard the other day that the bully claimed that she had mental health problems last year (I know it sounds heartless, but she is a manipulative and consummate liar). And my first though was Karma, and I don't feel guilty at all.

People underestimate the long term damage that bullying causes, so I couldn't care less what this girl went through. I tend not to bear grudges, but the damage this girl did to DD's mental health was pretty significant and long lasting.

You don't need to feel guilty unless you killed him

You'd be a less sincere person if you pretended to like someone just because they are dead. Save your grief and sympathy for those who deserve it.
I hope you get the support you need to stop the fear of seeing these people.