To let our DD choose her own 6th Form

[JandLandG]

Ok, DD a good girl, just turned 16, did pretty well in GCSEs this summer.

Her school is fine but could be better.

We went to a 6th form open evening at another local school. Clearly better academically. She is doing academic subjects for A level.

A good girl, but a bit reticent socially and hides behind her friends ifykwim...all fair enough for a youngster, of course.

We think that changing school would be better academically and help move her on socially.

She wants to stay in her comfort zone at her old school.

Again, fair enough....but this is the crunch week to choose....how far should we go to "force" her to change schools and go for the better education and a chance to "re-invent herself" at the new place?

Its a losing battle at the moment for us.

She's staying put having tried both school this week.

Obviously, we've always wanted the best for her...but in the past when she's been a child, it was easier to make choices for her..

Now she's older...is she old enough to decide this? MAture enough? Seeing the bigger picture enough?

So that's our dilemma this week. Should we/could we "force" her to change school to get a "better" long-term outcome?

Obviously we don't that would be the case...we can't tell the future...but seriously, it would be better for her to change schools. Grrrrrrrr!!!!! :-)

Any thoughts/experience/advice much appreciated.

We're so massively lucky that this is the extent of our problems at the moment....we appreciate that, but this is what is exercising us now...

Thank you

Let her choose. I was in the opposite position at her age, I went to a very academic super selective grammar, the best in the borough. Despite being a very able student, I was terribly unhappy the whole time I was there. There was no question of my parents letting me move schools as I was at the "best" school.

I ended up having a nervous breakdown six weeks into sixth form and never completed my a levels. If she works hard she will get good results anywhere. Happiness is more important than anything.

I agree with nosy. DD's 6th form is part of her school, and quite a few students who came from other schools have left because they found it difficult to make new friends as it is very cliquey.

One of DD's friends wanted a new start at another 6th form in another town. It is attached to the school there and she hasn't made any new friends either.

6th form college is different as everybody is new so they are all looking to make new friends.

"She sounds overly timid and needs to learn a bit of resilience. Make her go"

What an awful thing to say. Throwing a timid 16 year old into a situation like that is not very supportive. I know it is sink or swim, but as a parent how would you feel if your child sank?

Another point to consider is whether the school with better academic results looks better on paper because they weed out the lower ability students, rather than because they have better teachers. This is a very topical issue just now.

Just to say in the interests of balance - dd started at a new 6th form attached to a school. 45% of the intake at 6th form is from other schools. They were nothing but welcoming to dd and she made loads of friends very quickly.

It seems a bit late in the day to be having these discussions.

Have you had a sensible, grown-up debate about this. Have you taught her to identify goals, to create a list of for & against, how to give weight to different criteria, how to come to a decision (avoid paralysis by analysis), to check assumptions, etc, etc.
She should be able to demonstrate to you that this is the best choice, she should be able to justify herself and convince you of the rightness of the decision.

It is far less than 45% at DD's school, mostly due to location as it is semi rural. Most 16 year olds in the nearest town go to the 6th form college because it is easier to get to (and it does have a good reputation).

Ours is very rural! A 'cliquey' 6th form sounds horrible tbh

I agree. It isn't very nice.

Our 6th form is big - 300 odd students so cliqueyness can't really happen.

I do not know any parents who let their dc decide. Listen to their opinion yes but the final choice lies with the parents.
I think some people forget why dc have parents who are responsible for them until age 18.

No, parents are not responsible for them until age 18, they have responsibility to them (to provide food and somewhere to live, etc.) Parents do not have the right to dictate what their child does (where it affects their life) once said child develops the maturity to make such decisions themselves. As I understand it, this has been the case since a House of Lords ruling in 1985.

And if I understand the regulations regarding the raising of the educational participation age correctly, the responsibility for organising post-16 education rests with the student, not the parents.

And that is exactly as it should be. As a retired teacher I am too familiar with what happens when parents try to force their children into a choice of A level subjects against the student's wishes.

300 for years 12 and 13 isn't that big. The 6th form colleges round here have about 1500 students. DD's 6th form has about 270 students in total.

Why do you want her to reinvent herself? That makes me feel a little sad. My daughter has always been self contained and will never be the loudest or most sociable person in the room but that's just the way she is - quietly confident with a very small but tight circle of friends. She's been the same from a toddler, though school to 6th from and now university and it has never held her back in any way. I'm assuming most other people in your family are extroverts and you feel she might be missing out on social/ networking opportunities but please don't make her feel she needs to change - introverts are wonderful and are massively appreciated by other introverts like me who hate the responsibility of having to be entertaining and the centre of attention. It may just be who she is and she might always be happy to take centre stage to her friends, no matter what the setting. I'm sure she will go on to have a wonderful, successful life no matter what 6th form she attends.

• leave centre stage, not take

AldiAisleOfCrap Assuming you have children, I think you are in for a bit of a shock if you think that parents still make all important decisions when they are 16. You do realise 16 is the age of consent and also the age where they are entitled to consent to medical treatment?

A different perspective from me. My DC gained top marks at our local high school which didn't have a 6th form. Went to local 6th form college. Excellent A levels, useless career advice. She was adamant that she wouldn't consider Oxbridge universities. 12 years on, with a few career changes along the way, she has finally qualified in her dream career.

Interestingly, it comes to light that she really regrets not looking at Oxford or Cambridge now, as no one persuaded her that it would be worth a look (and that she would actually be good enough to get through the selection process and interview). We were at loss as as to how to persuade her and she made her own choice, going to a good uni and gaining a first class degree.

Her decision was 2 years on from your DD's decision, so it does demonstrate that they aren't quite mature enough to make decisions at that age. I wouldn't change a thing and she's made it to where she wanted to be, but I think she'll always feel like the poor relation as everyone she works with is Oxbridge or higher educated.
I know that doesn't help your predicament, but in this case I think your DD needs to make her own decision. The last thing you want is for her to disengage if she's unhappy at the alternative 6th form.

We let DD decide age 11 between 3 independent school offers. All academic but one very high in league tables that apparently "no-one turns down". But DD hated it on the occasions we visited and felt much happier at the more relaxed, less selective school. We went with her wishes and she is very happy, top set, all A* so far, enough bright kids but lots of emphasis on other achievements too, etc. Occasionally I get a twinge when I see the 'pushy' school crowing about their brilliant GCSE and A level successes but then I remember how lovely it is that DD is so happy and settled. And would she have been so in the school she had a bad feeling about. I would support her decision op, that way whatever happens she won't resent you later on.

anyway, the schools are barely a mile apart...it'll be so easy to keep in touch - How many people do you keep in contact with from secondary school?

yes, the current school's good enough....but why not risk it for a biscuit??? - But why risk it at all, she could go to the new school and do great, or should could go to the new school hide in her shell, struggle to get on with anyone and get bad grades. Its impossible to tell what will happen and you could end up regretting making her go to a new school as much as she could regret not going. Lifes a tricky thing, and it doesnt matter how old you are or what decisions you make, you will always end up asking "What if". If her grades are already good then her current school must be doing something right

the old school's sixth form is new and doesn't have the reputation and status with universities that the other place does. - Grades are the same at any school. University names have pull when you're older, not sixth form names.

and an opportunity to re-invent herself from the yr 7 self she's still seen as by many, I suspect - She will have plenty of time to reinvent herself when she goes into university.

Let her make her own choice and support her in that choice. If things start going wrong, dont take the attitude of "I told you you should of gone to the other school" that doesnt help anyone.

As the 16 year old not allowed to make that choice I cannot express enough how important it is that you let her. She is 16, it is her life. My mother's controlling tendencies ruined mine/

No, it's her decision. Dd has just started a 6th form that's perfectly fine but wouldn't have been my number 1 choice.
But it wasn't my choice. She wouldn't have listened to me anyway; even if I'd tried to impose my choice on her. Would yours?

I can see why you want to influence your daughter and your OP is full of love.

My 2 perspectives. I went to a private school with a good reputation and begged my parents to let me go to the local sixth form college as I thought private education was unfair. They didn't let me. I have no idea how I would have done academically had I moved. We were talking about this at the weekend and this is one of my big life moments. My mum doesn't even remember the conversation and told DH she thinks I made it up. I think not being able to make my own decisions has affected me long term and has affected my relationship with my mother.

A friend of mine came into our very tightly knit sixth form. There were only 3 new girls out of 70. She hated it. Found it cliquey - most had been there from 4 or 11 and she could never break into the friendship groups, so coming in new to a sixth form where others have come through from the school can be hard.

DH went to a pretty rubbish comp and ended up on the same university course as me.

Tbh, you'll never be able to answer the question about whether the right decision was made because you'll never know how it could have turned out.

MrsJoy

OP
Why are you discussing this now?
GCSE results were weeks ago
Term has started
all the good 6th forms will have filled their places back in March
enrollment will have been at the end of August

and FWIW DC's college has year groups of 2,000
and it still gets cliquey

Yes, yes, yes....all ok.....I think nosyupnorth wins it, but lots of good points - some preposterous ones, of course, but that Mumsnet!

Obviously, i've not been able to include all details, subtleties and nuances, so some comments are a bit off the mark, but there we go.

of course we'll be massively supportive when the final decision is announced at the sunday roast (I've just thought of that - like a dramatic denoument of a tense thriller!).

she'll stay put, i'm fairly sure.

and do you know what? it'll come partly as a relief to us too, of course.

a step into the unknown is always tricky...but can sometimes be worth it.

thanks mumsnet, I've really appreciated all your comments and thoughts.

this will all be turned into a west end play in a few years entitled "My Idiot Parents And How They Attempted To Spectacularly Fuck Me Up Philip Larkin-style"

It's a bit late anyway isn't it?

Well done OP. I hope your DD flourishes in her chosen 6th form.

With hindsight, if I could change one thing, I would have invested in some independent careers advice for DC after A levels.
See you back here in 2 years

of course we'll be massively supportive when the final decision is announced at the sunday roast (I've just thought of that - like a dramatic denoument of a tense thriller!)

You need little crystal wine glasses with claret, lots of dishes with lids that lift off and a candelabra. Can you hire a butler?