WIBU

[defintelyNCForThisOne]

Too late to tell me what to do (as it's all said and done), but a little confirmation or education could be appropriate.

Today a younger child (Year 4) told her male teacher she'd begun her first period. In our 4 form entry school, he works with 3 other men and felt this was more appropriately dealt with by a woman so took her to a female teacher (head of Year 5) and said something along the lines of "Mrs X, could you have a little chat with Lucy here? Thanks"

He buggered off sharpish and didn't think anything more of it that a friendly "are you okay now Lucy" after lunch.

He's mid-30s with nearly a decade's experience.

I've since had a shitty email from Mrs X asking why she was interrupted, why she was calle dupon when it isn't her job and if someone as immature as Mr X should be in his position.

Surely actions were fine or am I seriously out of touch. Mrs X is a fine member of staff. Not at all 'on a crusade' generally and her comments have been enough to make me wonder if my quick dismissal of her concerns was misguided.

Thanks

tippyTinkle

As the mother you wouldn't know about the private email.

I said I was senior to Head of Primary so I'm not quite sure how you got Dept. Head from there.

As this event happened a few weeks ago and my MN account is through a VPN and burner email, I'm not as brave as you think I am. It's neither specific or traceable to a child or me.

Gazelda

I don't see it as a school's job to hand out sanPro but if it were, should it be simply handing it over or providing 'advice' too? The lines quickly become blurred and whilst Mrs X may be U on this occasion, if it were to become a regular 20min woman-to-woman session, her class and teaching would suffer.

others

I appreciate the mixed responses and I'll be sure to have a look at and think about the primary infirmary.

I'm presuming there is a toilet in or near your infirmary.....

But the first thing that strikes me is that the Y4 teacher went straight to the head of the year above, within which it is more usual for the girls to start their periods. No?

Unlike him, he might have assumed that she'd be prepared for this (and maybe how to handle it on a pastoral care level) not just because she's female herself but because she would be more used to it being something that starts popping up in Y5.

OP, I don't know if other posters are as confused as me, but I don't know what "senior to Head of Primary" means. So forgive any confusion. As you are apparently not in the UK, can I clarify the age of Y4? Is the UK it is 8-9years.
And I'm a bit perplexed by your reply to me. Are you honestly saying that if a young child starts her first period unexpectedly, that you don't feel it should be up to the school to provide sanpro, and that you don't feel the school's responsibility extends to advice? Maybe I've misunderstood you, but I find that an astonishing attitude from someone who's role involves child welfare.

I think he was right that it was more appropriately handled by a woman.
Obviously, without knowing who was doing what at the time, and who else was available, we can't know if Mrs X was the right woman at the time - in schools I've worked in, it would be a TA that would have dealt with anything like that, because the class isn't then left without a teacher. Even though the TA would quite possibly have to be pulled from elsewhere. Alternatively it would be a non-class -based member of staff, anyone from the secretary to the HT. People who work in schools are often helpful kind of people who like to put the children first, but I think the male class teacher was right to let a female member of staff deal with it.

"mumsnet can you advise me, my DD has just told me that her male teacher gave her sanpro and clean knickers as she had started her period. He then gave her a hug, I am very worried about this situation a male teacher and a child in a vulnerable situation. What should I do?"

Can you imagine the responses?

He would be crucified.

Daisy

There's a bathroom in the infirmary but as a 'larger' school (1 1/2 to Year 6) it's likely being used for something more tummy-buggy than a period.

On the grounds, bathrooms are split into primary, secondary or adult (parent or staff). None of which seem especially appropriate for a Y4.

I'm still reading with interest but as every medical study recently points to earlier onset of puberty, we need to reconsider our facilities.

I get where Mrs X was coming from as she can ill-afford to become the go-to woman but at the same time, it doesn't seem like MN is universally against Mr X for seeing sex-differences.

Gazelda

I'm the Principal. My school has a Head of Primary and a Head of Secondary (and me)

Not UK but we have the same "years".

I think it's a school's responsibility to provide emergency sanpro and advice and support but not as a matter of course.

others

There were TAs (one per class of 15 and one 'floater' - 2/4 were female) but he is the person whose job depends on the wellbeing of the children in his care. He has ultimate responsibility. I believe that Mr X panicked a little but I don't think the child picked up on it and I don't know or think he should have acted differently. If were were discussing a lack of sanpro for an older / experienced girl then I think and expect he would have.

BoneyBackJefferson

But I'd be in the minority saying "ODFOD" and wondering what the correct solution was ...

What does "senior to Head of Primary" even mean?

There's a BIS very close to us that we briefly considered for DGC. Whilst mostly DSIL was opposed, I must admit your post has lowered them in my estimation.

To use an Americanism, what's the big deal about a nearby female teacher helping a young girl?? This is one of the very few instances where the teacher's sex is relevant!

For heaven's sake, how does this one-off, or very occasional, episode imply a sudden deluge of '20-minute woman-to-woman sessions'??

Do you have a school nurse? (Most private schools here do.) A Head of Pastoral Care? Actually, it sounds like you merely need more compassionate teachers! Mountain out of a molehill.

No he didn't do the right thing. He should have gone up his line manager and asked who he should refer this to, no teacher should put situations onto another teacher just because she was female. He should have spoken to his line manager and said he hadn't dealt with this before and asked what he should say, provide her with, how to show her the item or if there was a lead who did this. So basically he's passed the buck and is now no better to deal with the situation if it was to arise again.
To be honest I'd be using it as a learning opportunity and having a slot in the staff inset about it, providing a couple of pads to each teacher for their desk and designating one or two staff as leads on this.

As someone who started her period aged 9 and had to deal with the disbelief from female teachers, I totally agree that this situation needs to be dealt with by a woman.

I actually think Mr X handled the situation well but I take Mrs X point that it's not a long term solution.

I suggest you plan for future instances. If it's a simple case of needing sanpro any teacher can provide. If it's "first period" situation then a female, friendly, kind staff
Member should be able to sort it out. Including provide clean knickers, explain how to use the sanpro, bag up any ruined clothes and call the parents.

Totally understand what you mean about the common sense approach. Our school wouldn't give a hug 😞

It is perfectly reasonable he asked a woman, I can understand both being unsure about appropriate - there is plenty of insecurity around letting a male teacher see / help with girls knickers, and not having any sanpro / knowing where it is. Lucy sounds very mature, mrs X very precious. It is the type of not strictlyin my domain request anyone would do happily. Although not mrs X.

If I were Lucy, I think I'd rather talk to a woman than a man in that moment. If I were Mr X, I would have immediately assumed she'd rather talk to a woman than a man about it.

I don't normally agree with people asking for a woman to jobs based purely on their sex, however I think when it comes to a 9 (potentially 8?) year old girl starting her period rather early it's a bit different. I think mr x acted how he thought was best, and if I was Lucy I'd definitely prefer talking to a female.

I certainly think it was more appropriate to find a female teacher for a whole host of reasons first and foremost being that he's never had a period so couldn't be sure that what he was telling her was correct. Whether Mrs X was the most appropriate person to ask to take care of the situation however is unclear. I would assume you have a school nurse who should be able to help (even if they are male). Or maybe someone in a pastoral care position. That said, it would seem unreasonable forMrs. X to get snarky about it. Little girl started her period, she was asked to help. It couldn't have taken long. A polite suggestion that the school create a policy would suffice.

I think this is a very strange thread...

I think the male teacher could have been a little less freaked out. "Oh dear, it's tough isn't it, let's get you someone to talk to who knows about this", because he knows nothing about what is like to be a woman or a girl on her first period. I think the female teacher overeacted and it should be accepting that she helps with this. Similarly if 10 year old Tommy had an problem that a woman will not have experienced personally (though she may have knowledge from a caring role) I think it's absolutely fine to expect a make teacher to pick that up.

OK, I probably gave you a hard time yesterday. Your comment about safeguarding rang alarm bells for me, as my husband deals with safeguarding issues in institutions, often school, and many are overseas. When an instance occurrs you can be sure that the school had a relaxed attitude to safeguarding, and were not rigorous because they were in a 'nice' setting and everyone knew everyone else (common in ex pat context) and nobody believed that person could possibly be an issue.
This is so common, so to see a head of an overseas school seem to diss safeguarding was a worry.
However, both the examples you quote are nonsense, in the sense that a properly trained safeguarding officer would not have done either of them .

So back to Lucy. Let's go back to a year 4 starting theri periods unexpectedly. What does she need?

1. a private place to have a quiet chat to see if she is ok, understands what has happened and knows what to do.
2. san pro
3. probably clean knickers
4. support in knowing how to handle this is in school, ie, which loo to use, where to dispose of san pro etc
5. a conversation about telling mum/carer.

6, possibly a leaflet for her to read later? Or a book recommendation for Mum?

None of these are best provided by her class teacher in the middle of a lesson, they cannot walk out and leave their class for as long as it takes.
While I have total faith in a good male teacher that he could handle it, I suspect that in practice both Lucy and the teacher would feel more comfortable if it was female.
As I said in our school it would be the TA who delat with it. I think Mr X (with the value of hindsight) should not have interrupted another teacher, who would also have had to leave their class, but used the TA to hand, who is more able to leave the classroom. They may be gone with Lucy for 5 minutes or for half an hour (some year 4's may be very distressed and need quite a bit of support)

As you have a nurse on site, they are also ideally placed to deal with it. The infirmary needs enough of a private space for a conversation away from others and for the child to be shown how to stick the san pro on. (using a spare pair of knickers as an example) and then a loo where she can go and sort herself out, clean knickers and san pro, with enough for the rest of the day, included stickign it in all wrong and needing to start again.

I agree that as a school you need to think this through. Early puberty may be on the rise, but when I did sex ed with year 4 back in 1992, we were told that 25% of girls begin their periods before the end of year 5, so I am amazed this hasn't come up before for you. In my current school a large % of year 6 girls have started their periods.

Our school has toilets used by all kids aged 4-11. The girls toilet has one cubicle with paper disposal bags and a bin (one of the commercial ones for san pro) The girls are shown where it is and some explanation of how to use it. I think in the building with more younger kids they put it in the disbled loo, so that it was more discrete and out of way of inqusitive younger ones.
There is always emergency san pro available. Either from class or the office, or, in your case, the infirmary. There is also clean knickers big enough for older girls available (our PTA buys a couple of packs each year)

That way the girls know it is set up, sorted and normal.

Thinking a bit more about literature, your library should have a couple of books about growing up and puberty on the shelf for all to read. usborne do some excellent ones.

I think it was entirely appropriate to hand this off to a female member of staff. Not everything has to be "gender neutral", and there are times when, yes, a person's gender DOES matter, despite what some people would like us to believe.

At that age, if I was Lucy, I'd have been MORTIFIED at the idea of a man/male teacher helping me with my period, especially the first one. Hell, at that age, I'd probably have been mortified at ANY teacher helping me, but seeing as this happened in school time, I'd definitely only want to deal with a female staff member.

Going forward, I think your school needs to get a plan in place for when this happens again. By that, I'd ask the female staff members as to who'd be willing to be the "liaison" in these cases (perhaps a non-teaching staff member would be best), and then all the adults know who to contact in future. This way Mrs X won't have to be "inconvenienced" when another poor child unexpectedly starts their period in school at the age of 8/9/10. Mrs X sounds like she is severely lacking in compassion. If she views it as sexist that she was informed, rather than the male teacher dealing with it himself, then she is also an idiot.

International schools are organised differently. A senior to head of primary would make sense. They are often 4-18 education.

Basically, everything BoneyBackJefferson said. Some of the responses suggesting otherwise boggle the mind!

Although it does sound like your infirmary could do with a redesign.

What happens when older DC start their periods at school? What is the standard protocol then? Teacher should have followed that.

If all teachers and TAs don't know, then training is required.

Poor old Lucy.

Personally it sounds like this whole experience needs to be a huge learning curve.

Considering most primary school are very uncomfortable with a teacher or either sex hugging a child these days, I can't imagine a situation where a male teacher can win helping a 8-9 year with her periods

Going forward it would definitely be worthwhile creating a policy, that a neutral party like the nurse is the go to person in this situation and she can have a stock of sanitary protection and new knickers. Maybe even some leaflets and chocolate in case they are very young a bit unsure so can take a bit of time out to come to terms with what's happened to them and the chocolate will provide a bit of relief from any shock and give a virtual hug

The teacher that is annoyed but she got picked for being female, isn't she being a bit over sensitive. In that situation I'd fully understand how a female child would rather rather deal with a female adult as they have periods themselves and know it's embarrassing when they first start.

gobster (and others)
I think the female teacher was as annoyed at being interrupted in her class to deal with a child from another class. She would have had to then leave her class to deal with the child. Mr X could have sent Lucy to TA, nurse, etc, rather than pull a teacher out of class

The other teacher in my grade is male. This would be a no brainer between us that I would deal with the young girl in this situation. Not everything needs to be gender neutral, and a very young girl dealing with her first period is a time for female support. Mrs X sounds like a bitch, and I feel sorry for her being the only support this young girl got. I absolutely see it as part of my job to provide support to students (all students, not just the ones on my class list) when they need it.