Daughter and childcare

[Remy66]

Hello.
My daughter is in her early twenties and has a 3 yr old son. He is lovely and I love him to pieces. She has struggled financially and while she has a partner they do not earn much and paying for childcare was crippling them so I agreed to look after her son for 3 days per week 8am until 5pm, his other Nona also took care of him one day per week so they did not have to use paid childcare.

I retired early due to both ill health and needing to care for my own, at the time, very sick daughter. She is 14 now. She is severely autistic, nonverbal and is diagnosed with global developmental delay. At her last assessment at 10 she measured at having the mental age of a 2yr old. She can be aggressive and frequently bruises me and hurts me during meltdowns and has broken my finger in the past. I have methods to stop her meltdowns which include things that could be distressing for my grandson which include an alarm (I believe it's a rape alarm I bought it from amazon). This is the last resort to stop her from beating me.

My daughter attends a special needs school and leaves at 8:30am and returns home by 3:30pm. She is taken in a taxi that I pay for it was originally council funded (seperate issue and a long story).
When my grandson was here it was ok initially. The problems began about a fortnight in, after school. My grandson would upset my daughter by triggering her meltdowns. Sometimes perhaps on purpose (eg, she is territorial over some things and he would pick these things up despite being told not to touch and say "im taking this home. Nona says it's mine now" thinking I was out of earshot) it got to a point where the mere sight of my grandson would tip my daughter into meltdown. I would often be hurt in the process protecting my grandson. So I said to my daughter I'm sorry but starting from x date (around 3wks before that date) you cannot bring him here anymore. She cried and said I was a horrible mother which hurt me a lot as I love her and my grandson but if I cannot keep him safe or keep my own child happy I will not look after him.
The other issue is that while I looked after him I was often feeding him snacks in the morning as he was hungry, lunch and dinner. I do not have much money but I said to my daughter just give me 20 pounds a fortnight to cover this. It certainly would not cover it all as he added easily an extra 30 pounds a week or more to my spending in nappies (he is not yet toilet trained), food drinks, snacks and that does not include any days out I took him on which I fully accept is my cost to bear. She refused to pay this to me, she initially paid me some money (ten pounds) then said "don't make a habit of this I don't have money coming out of my ears" which upset me a lot as I know I was saving her about £350 a month in childcare of course I wouldn't ask for this but I think £20 per fortnight was perfectly reasonable. I don't see why I should give up what little time to myself I have and put myself into financial struggle as a thank you.

This was 3 months ago that I stopped looking after him.
Since she has cried on the phone to me saying childcare costs are hurting her financially. I said ok I will try again but you must arrive after daughter had gone to school and he must be gone when she is home. She agreed to this. Since, her or her partner bring grandson right after daughter leaves for school and grandson is then picked up by her partner or somebody else (sometimes partners sister sometimes his mother). What I have issue with is the cost of having this child and also the fact my daughters partner or my daughter will sometimes arrive early sometimes by an hour so I am back to square one with playing referee between my daughter and grandson. He is so small and my daughter can physically overwhelm me I worry he would be hurt or worse and I cannot bare that I also know my daughter would blame me if her son was hurt.

I feel very disrespected that she does not listen to me or work within the limits I set because I am really doing her a favour which I do not mind as such but the disrespect is hurtful. I'm also saddened that she would rather see me struggle because I now have an extra mouth to feed.
Her son is also quite fussy and has an unhealthy diet which is down to her parenting but if I try to make him eat anything healthy of course I get a tantrum which is ok kids are kids and I dealt with it too but she shouts at me if I try to feed him something he does not like.
I don't want to look after him anymore but I want to know if it is reasonable to do this to my daughter as I know she will scream and shout at me and I will be the worst mother in the world in her eyes.
I know this forum has a reputation for being honest and sometimes too honest please be honest but kind as I feel very frustrated and hurt at the moment

I suggest you sit her down and ask her how much childcare was costing (£350 you thought). Then say well for 20% (£70) she would be getting a bargain as a cost of nappies/food.

Another here absolutely stunned by your daughters selfishness ! Seriously Op, your DD must know how much pressure you're already under dealing with her sisters needs! I'm sorry but she doesn't sound like a very nice person at all.

I think you need to be very realistic with yourself about what you can and can't do. Try to leave aside feelings of obligation towards her and her OH, are you able to commit to having DGS? If not then you need to tell her. It's not a negotiation and you need to be firm that it's not working out.

If you feel that you can take him then be very direct about your conditions. She doesn't get to refuse to pay what you've asked who the hell does she think she is? You are saving them £350 a month, they can afford it because they were already paying it when you weren't available. If having the child is stretching your finances then you need to insist that she pays you a weekly amount. Quite honestly I'm stunned that she's not insisting on paying something anyway, that's just shameful!

I don't think your 3year old grandson is deliberately triggering your daughter in a malicious manner he is 3 he has no understanding of actions and consequences.

However your daughter not even parting with 20 quid a fortnight (should be at least weekly) to pay for his food, treats and nappies plus helping to go towards any outings you guys go on seems damn unreasonable. I think it's incredibly unfair that she expects you to do the lions share of his care when you clearly already have your hands full. It speaks volumes of her attitude towards you. I think it's best that you make it perfectly clear that there needs to be other arrangements made and that you don't want this to be an issue between you and you still want quality time with your GS. Maybe put it in writing an alternative care plan and say that you need some monetary contribution (suggest an amount) and if she can't agree to this compromise she needs to find alternative childcare arrangements.

Good luck and hold your head up high you aren't the one in the wrong here.

As far as I understand it, the government childcare scheme begins the term after a child has reached the given age so if your grandchild was 3 this September then he should get the allowance from January 2018. This will help your daughter and she needs to reserve a place at a childcare setting NOW as there will be limited availability. Parents need to show they are each working a minimum of 16 hours a week to qualify and obtain a claim code from their local education authority. The government is very misleading to refer to the scheme as FREE childcare, it should be called subsidised childcare.
a) It is not free as the taxpayer pays for it.
b) A token amount, let's say £4 per hour ( it varies per area), is paid by the scheme but some childcare establishments' charges are higher e.g. £5-£6 per hour so the parent would have to cover the difference per hour- still a good deal though.
c) The scheme only operates during school term times and for a certain number of hours per day so if parents need all year round, long days of childcare they would have to pay the full fees outside of those hours.

Obviously, you had hoped to help your daughter with her childcare difficulties but the problems are hers, not yours. Of course, it is good both parents are working but they should have consisted all the costs involved when they decided to have a child. Also, you should have realised how looking after your grandchild would impact on your own live in child who appears to have severe special needs. If you had had a few trial days at the weekend then this would have been obvious to all!

I can see your daughter is disappointed that she feels you have let her down after you offered to help but if she wants it to continue then she needs to only bring her children between the hours you offer, provides nappies and wipes and a change of clothes and offer a token amount to cover food and treats if you can't afford to cover that. Her alternative childcare which costs her £350 will also require these things so she should be used to that.

Your post has made me quite sad OP. I know I'm probably projecting my own situation, but both of my parents died several years ago and it really bothers me to hear of others completely and utterly taking their retired parents for granted.

You have tried to do your absolute best for both of your daughters, as well as for your grandson. You have done this at your own financial, emotional & physical expense. Please feel no guilt at all by honestly saying that this cannot continue.

PPs are absolutely correct that your DGS will be technically eligible for 30 hours free childcare from January. This will not be dependent upon his parents' benefits or earned income. I have however heard that in some areas, nurseries have been saying that they cannot offer the 30 hours free due to "technical" issues. Issues such as the rate the government will pay them for the free 30 hours not being enough to cover their overheads, let alone make a profit. I suppose whilst it's been 15 free hours each, they have still had a significant number of DCs having extra hours on top of that paid at the standard private rate. Now that almost all hours for 3 & 4 year olds will be paid at the "free" rate, private nurseries are saying they may struggle to cope. Maybe, just maybe, the nursery your DD approached are one saying this?

In any case, whether DGS will be able to access the full 30 hours free or not, this should NOT be your burden.

for you OP. Your eldest daughter needs to learn to respect her mum!

If his birthday was days ago, he may not be eligible for 30 hours until January. I believe there is an application process (however as mine has just started school, I haven't had to look in to this). I think the 30 hours is based on earning the equivalent of 16 hours of minimum wage per week which it sounds like she is eligible for based on the hours you've been describing. Her financial circumstances could make them eligible from 2 anyway.

However, this is not your responsibility. She is an adult and responsible for herself and her son. You are responsible yourself and your dependent daughter, and her needs are more than enough to be going on with . She is exploiting you emotionally and financially. If she falls out with you because you are not convenient to her, despite the fact there is a potential risk of harm to her young child, that says that her priority is what she can get from you, not a loving, respectful relationship. Is it really worth the emotional, financial and energy costs on you to maintain that kind of relationship?

When my mum looked after my son I didn't pay for food. I would have if asked though.

I'd never have dreamed of expecting her to buy nappies/wipes. I bought them, left them at her house and she would let me know when she was running low and I'd send more.

Childcare is expensive. I'm in a position of considering giving up work because of it. (Mum suddenly died so my childcare is all paid now), but she does sound like she's taking the Mickey and that it's not really convenient to you.

Oh no YADNBU 😮
I'm guessing your daughter has realised that your grandson is eligible to start the local school nursery, but hasn't enrolled him because he would only be doing half-days (mornings or afternoons), which means she would still have to find additional childcare around that.
Surely she could claim his free hours in a local private day nursery instead, she would be able to use the hours to suit her?

Not all nurseries are easy to get into and not all allow much flexibility on the Vouchers.

For example, there isn't one within a 40min drive of here that I'm aware of that has less than a years waiting list.

And the one my kids attend only allow you to use 4 hours of funded hours per day (and all days are 10 hours - so there's always still 6 to pay). Not that mine are old enough for any funding at all at the mo.

That said, none of that is the OP's problem and it sounds like there are nurseries with spaces locally as they've already done one patch of family childcare and then reverted to nursery care.

My son is three and he is entitled to 12.5hrs nursery per week. He started the first term following his 3rd birthday.
I think you have been a Saint!

quiz, that's not right re the childcare.

b) A token amount, let's say £4 per hour ( it varies per area), is paid by the scheme but some childcare establishments' charges are higher e.g. £5-£6 per hour so the parent would have to cover the difference per hour- still a good deal though.

This is not true, the care has to be free at the point of access, providers can not charge top ups. They can charge for additional items such as meals. The provider can also stipulate session times (i.e. 9-12 then 1 - 4 Monday to Friday) and then charge normal hourly rate outside of these but they can't charge a top up for these hours.

c) The scheme only operates during school term times and for a certain number of hours per day so if parents need all year round, long days of childcare they would have to pay the full fees outside of those hours.

You can request stretched provision which means that for the 15 hours you can do 12 hours a week throughout the year.

I'm disgusted with your selfish daughter.

Of course she should be paying every expense involved with her child such as food, nappies, outings etc. If my mother/MIL/anyone was doing me the huge favour of babysitting my child I'd damn well make sure they weren't out of pocket for it. I'd either provide all his consumables or reimburse you for the money you had to spend on him.

She's taking you for a fool, and it needs to stop. Today! I bet as soon as you tell her you can't (afford to) babysit any more she'll "suddenly" discover that she is eligible for free nursery hours after all.

You don't even need a reason for not looking after your grandson, it's not your duty. Any childcare you do is a bonus!

OP's GRANDSON WAS NOT 3 UNTIL SEPTEMBER - THAT MEANS HE IS NOT ELIGIBLE FOR FREE HOURS UNTIL JANUARY.

Sorry to shout, but it's really not helping OP to have hoards of posters telling her that her daughter is lying about being entitled for free childcare.

Please stop helping her

My parents look after my toddler one day a week. I take meals and snacks, wipes, nappies and a treat for all of them in the afternoon. Sometimes a bottle of wine/gin too.

She's taking the piss.

Some children are entitled to free hours at 2 years old.

Stop looking after him. She's using you and I think deep down you know it....

You buy his nappies??? She should be sending nappies! Food maybe you could let go but nope otherwise.

As for funding you get it the term after their third birthday. My son was 3 in april and now gets 15 hours funded a week. No financial criteria needed 30 hours is based on circumstances but she could look into that.

Wow what a selfish daughter - heartbreaking how she could do this without a thought for you.
Nobody ever drops their child off without nappies & if they are fussy, snacks too. So she expects you to buy whole packs of nappies!
You have to stop and don't back down. She needs to grow up & take responsibility fr her child herself.

Clearly there are 2 separate issues here:

1. The finances. Childcare will cost significant money. It is a big cost on low wages, however that does not mean you must cover as a grandparent. Refusing to give you any kind of contribution towards nappies etc is ridiculous however, and if your budgets are tight there is no way you should continue with this.

1. Safety of dd/dgs. Clearly you cannot have the 2 together and this will be impacting in your health as well as the 2 children. If they cannot keep to you rules of drop off timings then you have no choice but to say it stops.

IF you were minded to continue - and in your shoes I would not - I would say that they will not be let in until DD is out. If they turn up early they can wait outside/ in the car, wherever. This will be tough on you to enforce but you have to for everyone's sake. I would also say that he needs to come with a full change bag, spare clothes, nappies, wipes etc as he would if he was in nursery. Anything less than this is just plain disrespectful. I would then also say you want £20 per week for food etc.

As an aside have you checked you are getting all you are entitled to for yourself and your daughter- dla/carers allowance etc?

Childcare funding - quick outline 2yr old funding only for parents earning under £16190 about 43hrs minimum wage between them. 3yr old funding for all, but Sept birthday entitled from 1st Jan for 15hrs. Increased to 30 hrs if both parents work 16hrs min wage (or equivalent) (variations apply for disabilies, and other special circumstances). But depending on area finding a provider which will take this can be challenging.

OP your daughter is NOT ENTITLED to expect you to care for her child and cover the associated costs. Any support you give is entirely your choice - and for which she should be grateful not nasty!!

As I said, I don't know specifics about their entitlements to any benefits or financial help because I do not pry. She has said to me that she cannot have them, I needn't know more than that.

Well she's lying to you. She hasn't looked in to it or she doesn't want to use them.

I think the 30 free hours... both parents need to be working 16+ hours and on under £100k.

But I think they are not allowed to receive any other form a benefits to receive.

However if she is receiving some benefits she can get 15hours free?!

That's what our nursery informed me.

Please don't let the thought of possibly not being able to see your grandson become the reason for you to be taken advantage of. This fear is unlikely to materialise as your daughter sounds so self absorbed she will require further time for indulgence.

Criteria for being eligible for 30 hrs free care here www.madeformums.com/news-and-gossip/30-hours-of-free-childcare---will-my-child-get-it/38143.html

OP, how did your conversation with your 'D'D go about this? Is everything ok?