To feel like a shit mum for having a career and using wraparound care?

[MissingDietCoke]

DD started school this week. Younger DS is in nursery, as was DD until school. I have a responsible job in the construction industry (and a specifically ultra male area thereof). School is by our house, nursery is across town near DHs work so until now DH has done all drop offs and pick ups and my working day has been unaffected.

With the two kids in different areas we now have to do one kid each, which means that I now have to arrive and leave work at very specific times which are obviously none negotiable. I use breakfast club and after school club and work 8.30 til 5pm now, which I had to request as a change of contract as previously contracted 9-5.30 meant that I couldn't get back for the end of after school club.

My office is solely men, I'm the only woman. The norm is to not take a lunch break, there's no flexitime and it's frowned upon if you leave before 6pm earliest. Phones are expected to be on and emails answered at all times. It's just how it is. I'm well thought of, good at my job and dedicated.

Today, two incidents. One conversation (argument) with a guy who asked why I'd bothered to have kids if my career was so important to me that I was never around. Too long a conversation to relay, but very much around the "my wife works around the kids so she can be a proper mum" type things. I've had very similar comments in the past. They're not malicious, just general musings but really get my back up. The second thing was when I walked out the door at 5pm I was met with a round of tutting and head shaking. I made the end of afterschool club by the skin of my teeth and despite the fact that my DD was playing happily and was clearly not even slightly distressed felt like an utterly shit mother for being at work all day and not a 'school gate mum' there outside the classroom at 8.50 and 3.30.

Both my kids and my career are very important to me, and I thought I could have both, but can I really?

Those that do it, how do you? And do you always feel the guilt somewhere? Am I just being soft?

Not malicious? Just musing? Telling you that you're not a proper mum?😯

Why are you making excuses for him?

he's a tosser. Ask him if he's not a proper dad then since he's at work all day?

Not soft. I feel guilty too (and I 'only' work 3 days) but I know also that I shouldn't feel guilty. Although sometimes I feel guilty for not feeling guilty enough.

What is it they say? A mothers place is in the wrong.

So basically what I'm saying is crack on doing what is right for your family but be aware that life's not fair and people are unnecessary shits about it.

Perhaps ask the man in question how he copes with full time work making him unable to be a "proper dad".

The twunt.

Don't let people make you feel guilty. Do what works for your family and forget other people's stupid comments.

Do this now and don't let the bastards get to you.

You never see dads being asked this sort of shit or feeling "guilt".

This bullshit sexism gives me the rage.

Ive tried various combinations, but to be honest I feel the guilt when I'm working and I feel the work when I don't (about not being a "proper role model", about not pulling my weight financially, about whatever is bugging me that day). Only advice I can give is that either way, your children is going to get the best from you if thats what you decide to give them, whether it is for 10 hours a day or 3. (I find I give them my best if I'm not a full time mum, but that's just me.) And don't listen to the tuts of others - you'll get them no matter what choice you make, trust me. xx

Hello

I hear you. My DS has started school this week. DD 18 months is still in childcare. I am quite relieved because now I only feel guilty with DS from 3.15pm onwards, rather than all day. But we now have two drop offs and hugely complicated arrangements, though I am lucky in that DP has changed his hours to pick up 3 days a week so DS is only in after school 2 days.

I have a loooong commute (1.5 hours each way) but I am lucky in that my work is pretty good, so this week I've done a couple of hours in the office each day so I can drop him and pick him up.

What I actually found difficult this week was standing at the school gate with mainly women and looking around for anyone who had rushed from work and so I could exchange 'isn't it hard' chats. The woman next to me (who had announced on the morning of the first day that her little cherub was lactose intolerant - teacher 'um, didn't you fill in the forms/respond to the emails/tell us at any one of the many opportunities' - mum 'no') was waffling on about how exhausting her 4 year old was and she was so run down and she was so pleased she now had a break till half term to recover.....

littledottie I think you nailed it with this
"sometimes I feel guilty for not feeling guilty enough." :)

It's not you being a shit mum, it's sexism. Do you think you would get those comments if you were a man?

Are you kids picked up, dropped off, cared for, loved? Then tell them to mind their own business.

Same!

What a total sexist idiot!

Ignore.

I feel sorry for his wife. Bet he does fuck all at home for her or the kids. Ask him if she warms his slippers by the fire

I work in the same industry as you, I'm a senior. My employer and my colleagues are brilliant when it comes to having to work around my children (I'm a newly single mum, work full time). YABU feel like a shit mum, plenty of us are in the same situation, none of us are shit. YABU remaining with such a backward looking employer who doesn't see the benefit of flexible working and supporting their staff in their lives. Find a new job.

A proper mum comes in all shapes and sizes - some of them even work full time.

Some proper dads pick up their kids from wrap around care as they realise that parenting is not just the sole responsibility of a proper mum.

Whilst you might wish to point out that their comments could be perceived as bullying, which it is, you may wish to just tell them to grow up and fuck off, or even something in between, depending on you and the culture you work in. Where I work the first option would be the norm route certainly not the second!

Welcome to my world, and probably the world of millions of women...

I work full time, love my job and my kids but shite it's hard!!

I'm the worker you see struggling to get out of work on time for school run, the mum running in the school gates, still on the phone to work and frantically trying to get kids on time.

I'm the worker trying to juggle an important meeting around assembly and parents eve; the mum trying to deal with tricky work issues via phone and email whilst sweltering to death at swimming lessons.

Some days whatever I do I'm failing. In those moments I put one foot in front of the other and plough on...but once in a while it all comes together and I think "I'm fucking smashing this working mum malarkey"

Not sure that is any help, but you're not alone!!

I'm not a mum so maybe not qualified to reply, but I also work in a male dominated industry and a lot of the guys are dads. They are forever moving their shifts around to accommodate childcare and taking time off for sick children etc and I honestly can't imagine comments about "proper mums". I don't think your office is normal - they sound horrible!

He's a dick. Call him on it. I take it he judges himself a shit dad for not being there?OK. We know he doesn't. But point it out. Seriously. Reassure him by patting his arm and saying there there, don't feel bad, I'm sure you're a real dad even though you're at work all day. ...

My father worked for many years in a specific area of construction too. If your work is done to a high standard they're the ones with poor time management.

Simply point out that you are able to do your job within your contracted hours, so you are doing your job effectively. Then ask him if he would like some tips on working more effectively, so he can leave on time too.

Firstly don't get drawn into hose types convo's. Just stick on a smile and say 'glad that works for you but me and my husband are a team'. Secondly head up high when you leave and say a breezy bye.

You'll feel better when you develop some "fuck you" attitude to the critics, I think. Which, in turn, comes from completely making peace with the new routine. Give it a month. Then always be unapologetic about your choices.

I had a guy say to me 'don't your kids miss you when you're not there'.
I feel your pain. They are a dying breed though.

Been there - done that. I still have my career, still work FT, and have perfectly normal, well-balanced kids (they're currently 11 and 13). Hang on in there and try to ignore the guilt.

Bloody hell! Tell them all to fuck off! Why do you give one fucking shit what those sexist dicks think!

Get on with your life. You're a great mum and fuck them !

Oh I'm totally with you. I have a long commute, very rarely get to do the school run, feel horribly out of place when I do and spend large amounts of time beating myself up re lack of playdates and non-attendance at pta coffee mornings BUT my kids are happy, healthy, well adjusted and we absolutely relish our family time. Once they are old enough to understand that work is a necessity to maintain their lifestyle it's easier. Mine are school age and occasionally I will muse about giving up work and how we'd adjust and they look at me with horror! The idea of no Sky TV is much worse than me working full time!
Hang in there, make the most of the time you have and take no notice of anyone else.

Been there and emerging from other side now DS has started senior school and can walk home. Keep at it - don't feel guilty. You are being a great mum whether you believe it or not

I'm a mum at the school gates, freelancing around the kids and I sometimes think I'd be much happier if I only saw the kids a wee bit in the mornings and evenings and weekends like my husband.

Grass greener and all that

I'm reading a book on time management. It pointed out that if you spend one hour in the morning with your kids and two hours in the evening that's fifteen hours in an average workweek. Add ten on Saturday, ten on Sunday and that's 35 hours - the equivalent of a full time job. The author points out that you don't say to yourself "I'm never in work" or "I hardly see work", even though the amounts spent in both are often similar.