To feel like a shit mum for having a career and using wraparound care?

[MissingDietCoke]

DD started school this week. Younger DS is in nursery, as was DD until school. I have a responsible job in the construction industry (and a specifically ultra male area thereof). School is by our house, nursery is across town near DHs work so until now DH has done all drop offs and pick ups and my working day has been unaffected.

With the two kids in different areas we now have to do one kid each, which means that I now have to arrive and leave work at very specific times which are obviously none negotiable. I use breakfast club and after school club and work 8.30 til 5pm now, which I had to request as a change of contract as previously contracted 9-5.30 meant that I couldn't get back for the end of after school club.

My office is solely men, I'm the only woman. The norm is to not take a lunch break, there's no flexitime and it's frowned upon if you leave before 6pm earliest. Phones are expected to be on and emails answered at all times. It's just how it is. I'm well thought of, good at my job and dedicated.

Today, two incidents. One conversation (argument) with a guy who asked why I'd bothered to have kids if my career was so important to me that I was never around. Too long a conversation to relay, but very much around the "my wife works around the kids so she can be a proper mum" type things. I've had very similar comments in the past. They're not malicious, just general musings but really get my back up. The second thing was when I walked out the door at 5pm I was met with a round of tutting and head shaking. I made the end of afterschool club by the skin of my teeth and despite the fact that my DD was playing happily and was clearly not even slightly distressed felt like an utterly shit mother for being at work all day and not a 'school gate mum' there outside the classroom at 8.50 and 3.30.

Both my kids and my career are very important to me, and I thought I could have both, but can I really?

Those that do it, how do you? And do you always feel the guilt somewhere? Am I just being soft?

Oh believe me I called him out on it! I'm tough enough to stand up for myself and my choices in public (there were also a few "fuck offs" in the too, and a questioning of his dad style too don't worry). It's just that he vocalised what I slightly already felt and now I can't get it out of my head, so it's obviously affected me somewhere inside.

Thanks for the support all. I'll give it some time and stick to my guns. I honestly believe a great mum and good at my job too, I just need to get used o them fitting together in this new way.

And yes, if not, a more flexible company may have to be an option - I have heard they're out there somewhere - but since my last one made me redundant at 6 months pregnant with DD I'm somewhat sceptical *sigh

this was my world and loads of my friends. I worked in the engineering/construction industry for years in a relatively senior role attending lots of meetings with senior people and I had a game where at every meeting I would go around the table and count how many children the men had (at least 2 each usually and often up to 4) and how many the women had (zero give or take one in nearly every case except me - and my career wasn't helped by my children in any way)

1. your colleague is a dick - an unevolved dick. You could call him on it but I wouldn't bother - not your job to rear him right. just shut down those conversations immediately and move on. Would love to know what his wife thinks of their division of labour.

1. Don't worry about your children - wraparound care is fine. Your children will be fine. In parenting what matters is that you provide a loving environment which is focused on the children.

1. If you are doing your work well, ignore the tuts (how fucking unprofessional is that though) etc.

As for the guilt - I have a close friend whose mother died when she was a toddler and who was reared by her father as a single dad holding down a high-powered job. She has the same high-powered job now - same job as her husband - and has 4 kids. What I love about her is she feels no guilt whatsoever about working- absolutely none. Because she was reared entirely by a man who felt no guilt about working - why would he?

It's very early days. They'll do their tutting and headshaking, then they will get used to the fact that you are leaving at 5pm and the world keeps turning.

It isn't just women - my DH took similar flack when he started finishing early every Fri. But then the comments stopped and others started doing the same thing. You'll prove that you are still just as good at your job.

I have to say it's never stopped feeling like an impossible juggling act, and like I'm just doing everything badly. But that is whole other issue that exists only inside my head.

You could look him in the eye and say, deadpan, 'gosh, you seem to feel very threatened working alongside an effiecient mother.'

Or Smile and say breezily, 'luckily I partnered a guy who doesn't have sexist attitudes and treats me as an equal. We're both good at our careers and in the home, oh and our children are fine too thanks. Oh and btw it's great having two incomes and pensions. Win win '

Hopefully that will shut the sexist twat up.

Do what you think is right after all its you that has to live with it, People will always judge ignore them

despite the fact that my DD was playing happily and was clearly not even slightly distressed felt like an utterly shit mother for being at work all day and not a 'school gate mum' there outside the classroom at 8.50 and 3.30.

It's all very well being a school gate mum, but only if you are a happy school gate mum.

I know that sounds twee, and it's not really what I mean, but I've been where you are, and what kept me going was the knowledge that while Society might expect certain things of me, if I had met those expectations, my mental health would have been damaged, I'd have been medicated, and consequently, the person I wanted to be would not have raised my DD. Giving up my career would have been too great a sacrifice for me to adjust to psychologically - I went back to work when DD was a few weeks old because I was beginning to experience symptoms of poor mental health.

If it were a choice between working and using wrap around care, or not working in order to be able to pick up my DD from school but sustaining physical injury in order to do so, no one would question my choice.
My mental health is just as important. It took me a while to gain the confidence to openly say it as my reason, but once I did, people backed right off.

My instinct was to reply with one of the early replies, questioning him about his working fulltime and not arranging his life around his children, but I actually think this (below) is a far better way to reply to him

Simply point out that you are able to do your job within your contracted hours, so you are doing your job effectively. Then ask him if he would like some tips on working more effectively, so he can leave on time too.

Ffs women simply cannot win whatever we do can we?

Work full time you're not a proper mum, whatever that means. Sahm you're a lazy sponger, work part time you're a 'part timer' not committed to the job.

Just do whatever you want and need to do and ignore comments off gobshites.

It's interesting to read how you're being made to feel by these colleagues - they clearly don't see mothers and fathers as equal parents. It makes me feel very lucky not to work with a bunch of twats. It sounds like the pressure to feel guilty really isn't coming from your experience as a parent or your childcare arrangements, but by the attitudes you are facing at work.

I work close to full time and don't feel in the least guilty. The reasons that I don't feel guilty are:

I'd be a really poor SAHM or even having more time off in the week. I'm not great at playing with small children and don't much like making a big mess at home. The nursery/school/after school club staff are much better at having my DDs every day and doing interesting things with them.

My DDs go to a great nursery/school/after school club and are both very happy at them. It did take a while for DD1 to settle into after school club, but now I get an earful from her if I pick her up too early and she goes for a couple of extra hours a week at her request, giving me a bit of 1:1 time with DD2. When I collect DD1 she's often playing outside or doing craft, which are things she wouldn't do as much at home.

I'm also keen for my DDs to see my career as equal to DH's career. I think that women and ther families can be a bit vulnerable if they don't maintain their career. I've seen the impact of ill health, marriages failing and careers failing in families with only one earner or one main earner and I wouldn't choose that risk for my family or encourage my DDs to take that risk.

When I was pregnant I was told that my child wasn't a dog and that his girlfriend gave up work when her child was born. I am ashamed to say that I cried.......word got round and the boss heard and gave him a disciplinary!