To ask how much work in preparation of the 11 plus your child did if they go to a grammer school.

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Ds sits his 11 plus exam in a few weeks. He is keen to do it as most of the boys in his year are. We have been doing a little work most days of the holidays ( approx 15 mins). He is progressing but still finds some of the practise questions hard. He has come home from school today and said that one of the boys in his class did 4 hours every day and another did formal mock tests every week which were £60 a go. Now I'm feeling that we haven't done enough. Mums at the school gate are usually a bit reluctant to discuss the amount of work done so I am really keen to know how much your child has done/ did as I know it's a topic that people disagree on.

Surely the point of sitting such an exam, is to determine the most naturally able academically. Tutoring to the exam might get the child through it, but might not be beneficial long term if the child can't maintain the academic rigour subsequently.

Nearly everyone is tutoring or doing practice papers though which means that children who don't tutor/practice are at a disadvantage whether or not they are academically able, particularly if their primary school is not particularly good at teaching maths.

Following with interest.

We live in a comprehensive area next to a grammar area, and we're intending DS (9) to sit the 11+ this time next year. I'm following this thread with interest.

My gut feeling is that I don't want to push any coaching/familiarisation too hard, as we have other options and other day-to-day priorities. He's a naturally anxious child so I want to avoid unnecessary pressure.

But today I've been talking to a parent a year ahead, whose son has been having paid coaching. He is very clear that for our out-of-area children, exam technique tutoring is essential. I don't feel good about that, as grammar schools are meant to be accessible to everyone regardless of resources, and paid tutors and academic parents aren't exactly universal.

A good friend of mine inviglates our local 11+
She says that every year she sees children who may well be extremely bright open the paper and either panic or in some cases burst into tears because they have simply never been in a situation like that before or haven't seen anything like the exam before ( multiple choice format). She says it's " cruel" to send any child into the exam without at least doing practise appears at home so they know what to expect.

I too think it's cruel to send a child into an exam situation with no preparation - you wouldn't do it at GCSE or A level, would you?

I have 2 kids at a "superselective", you had to score +90% to secure a place. The first one sat it 5 years ago and the number of applicants increase year on year (over 1000 in the last 3 years). It's not a perfect system (downright horrible in many ways) but it was the school that my kids were keen to go to, so we gave it a go.

To do them justice, we paid for a tutor (no way would they have listened to me...) for an hour a week, they had homework of up to 3 hours per week. They both did this from the February until the Sep of the test. No tutoring during the summer holiday.

According to my kids, every child in their year had "tutoring" whether it was paid for or done by parents. No one who got a place, got in with no preparation.

Good luck to all the kids and their parents.

^^ Score +90% and be within the top X (the number of places per year).

My daughters friends were all tutored every Saturday morning for between 1-2 hours . (£20 /hour) School set mock papers to be completed every week and the headmaster took those doing the test out to go over them and set the next one. The children also bought a pack of tests to complete over the summer months .
Parents may tend to downplay exactly how much work their children will prepare for the tests but the majority will spend a lot of time and a lot of money in the year before .
I'm a teacher and can quite accurately predict what the children will score when they pass through my class in year 4 . If they are capable they will sail through it as long as they aren't nervous and have reasonable exam technic.
It's not too late to do preparation for the test itself if your child is intelligent.

Hmm. The idea that the borough children will have done preparation in school (I thought that wasn't allowed?) makes me feel we definitely should.

Here the raw scores are adjusted for age, so my summer-born will get a few points' boost compared to his September friend. Is that standard across all 11+ areas or just here?

I did nothing and passed it.

State primaries around here aren't meant to do any 11+ prep. I agree with this - you can't put more resources into some children than others. It's very much the parents choice to go down this path.

Which of course means that those children who are able, but whose parents don't have the inclination or aren't supportive, don't become part of the process.

Personally I'd like it to go back to the system where the DCs go to school one day, the desks are arranged for the test, they do the test, places offered to the ones who meet the mark. (It will, of course, never happen).

I'm in Northern Ireland . Last year was the first year our school was officially allowed to help.

State Primaries round here won't have anything to do with it
Means that very able children with parents who can't or won't help them are unlikely to get a place at the 3 Grammars in this area so it's based on parental engagement not just ability unfortunately

It's a crappy system because it favours the wealthy and those with engaged parents.

I would also like the test to go back to how it was when I took it. I don't believe a child with limited ability can pass. I do believe that many children with exceptional ability fail. And that's a failure of the system.

It's utterly absurdthat half the state secondary schools in our area only admit pupils who have passed a test that the state primary schools are not allowed to teach.

mrs hathaway If your area works like ours then unfortunately you will have to put a lot more work in.

Grammar near us has 150 places. Something like 600 children sit. Bulk of places go to catchment children. Pass and in catchment and you are in, about 75% is a pass. Not enough pass in catchment so the leftover places are available but are allocated purely on score. So say 20 places left the best 20 scores get those, distance is not taken into account. Rumour is an ooc child needs to pass at 90% plus to be one of the 20.

When there they won't struggle as the tutoring is simply to get them over the handicap of being ooc - moving them from a 75% pass to 90% to stand a chance of a place.

Odds are something like in catchment has a 1 in 3 chance, out of catchment 1 in 15 chance of a place.

Thanks Dixie, that's very clear.

When there they won't struggle as the tutoring is simply to get them over the handicap of being ooc - moving them from a 75% pass to 90% to stand a chance of a place.

This makes sense based on the criteria I've read: that if you're out of catchment you need to score as high as you can, not just higher than the pass mark. Which makes me think his summer birthday and those extra few points might make all the difference

Without wanting to brag, he is genuinely bright and DH and I both went to selective schools and then top universities, so it's not an outrageous proposition. But if it depends on the standard of the cohort then that's complicated.

I think there are more ooc places here, though, as there used to be literally dozens every morning on my commuter train (I now wfh).

JigglyTuff I agree. it is a bizarre system. State primary schools are not mentioning or prepping kids for tests at nearby state schools.

I know that 2 primarys near us ran lunchtime/afterschool 11+ prep clubs - presumably to circumvent the no prep done in schools rule.

Mrs hathaway

I'd recommend elevenplusexams.co.uk - it's forums have the latest advice on each area.

Thanks, I'll look.