To ask how much work in preparation of the 11 plus your child did if they go to a grammer school.

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Ds sits his 11 plus exam in a few weeks. He is keen to do it as most of the boys in his year are. We have been doing a little work most days of the holidays ( approx 15 mins). He is progressing but still finds some of the practise questions hard. He has come home from school today and said that one of the boys in his class did 4 hours every day and another did formal mock tests every week which were £60 a go. Now I'm feeling that we haven't done enough. Mums at the school gate are usually a bit reluctant to discuss the amount of work done so I am really keen to know how much your child has done/ did as I know it's a topic that people disagree on.

If you have to be tutored to get in a grammar school then it is not the right environment unless you are going to continue tutoring during their time there.

Whilst it is true that those who are extensively tutored and/or spend many hours each week on practice papers may struggle. It's not true that any tutoring at all will mean the child will struggle. In many areas almost every child who gets in does a certain amount of tutoring or practice papers (e.g. an hour or two a week).

We moved to a grammar school area when DD was in year 6, the headteacher asked after 1 week if she wanted to air the 11+ as her class had all sat it, I asked her if she wanted to, it was a yes, so she did and passed with flying colours, one of 2 in the class who passed, The others all failed,
If you can't pass a test without help then u will struggle to keep up with the work

I took the 11+ about 9 years ago and did no extra work for it - primary school headteacher was very much against grammar schools so didn't want me to go basically, and parents weren't keen on having extra tutoring for the exam for some of the reasons posted above.

I (somehow) got in, and rarely struggled with the workload despite not being overly intelligent in my opinion. I'm honestly not sure of the value of tutoring, but doing multiple hours each night for the 11+ seems extremely excessive! Good luck to your son when he takes it!

Oh this might sound horribly braggy but my son did no prep at all. He wanted to go to grammar school, I didn't really want him to but it was his decision so he did the test - I said I would help him prepare for it if he wanted and he kept putting it off (yeh maybe we can do some tomorrow) and I didn't push it cos I wasn't keen...

He passed the test well and got to the school he really wanted. He's really happy there too even though I still have twinges of concern about it.

At the end of the day it was his decision and I would have done some work with him if he'd wanted.

I think that most pupils at DDs' grammar school did have some tutoring but that doesn't necessarily mean they did a lot of work. For most it was just an hour or two a week. A lot of them would probably have got in anyway (those that had no tutoring certainly haven't been the most academic and are usually just good at non-verbal reasoning etc) but I think it can make the children more prepared for the exams and give them extra confidence.

Just jumping on this thread to wave at any year 6 parents in Kent. The kids are sitting the 11+ right now (what a miserable summer holiday that was!).

Depends on a lot on the primary. Whilst oustanding, maths is badly taught at our sons school and our son is in the top 5 in class.

He did a mock grammer test in spring. He got 70% in maths. The average was 73% and out of 1300 children who sat it 28 got 100% , 273 got 90% or above and 470 got 80% or above. Even though he got 79% in English and was in the top 40 he would not have got a place based on his maths.

As his maths tutor says, its not that he can't do it, he just hasnt been taught it

I agree that a lot is dependent on the primary. If the maths is good then no tuition is required.

If you have to be tutored to get in a grammar school then it is not the right environment unless you are going to continue tutoring during their time there.

Surely this is not true if most or all of the other kids are being tutored (which it seems from these threads that they are)? If the marks achieved in the tests are beung boosted by tutoring, an able child well-suited to grammar school could miss out on a place by not having the tutorung hat everyone else is getting. One of the many reasons for abolishing grammar schools...

I don't think that all children are being tutored but most do some practice papers. Tutors don't do anything that a reasonably intelligent parent can't do themselves but obviously, parents have to be engaged and willing to spend the time.

We only used a tutor for 12 hours over the summer, mainly i did workbooks with him. We probably did 30 minutes on weekdays after school for a year and a couple of hours every weekend.

Mine started grammar this week. There is a big difference between grammar schools with catchments and those without 'superselective'

Ours has a catchment. GL assessment in VR, maths and English. They don't publish pass mark but is is rumoured to be 75% ish. If child is 'top table' and has some prep they are likely to pass.

Superselectives take children with highest marks so children need to be scoring very highly to get in - 90% plus.

In our area most seemed to have an hour a week with tutor from part way through yr 5. All 4 that passed from DC school had some tutoring. There are only 24, 50 minute GL test papers from memory to do so we saved those for the summer hols so 3 a week. DD also did a mock for £20 with a local tutor. Sitting 3 papers in 3 hours is a massive thing for a 10 year old, I don't think i had to do that length of exam until my A levels.

For the GL one DD sat it was maths that needed prep as the test is on the yr 6 curriculum and beyond 3 weeks into yr 6. So someone needs to cover it with child before test. Likewise VR there are only so many types of question and you do speed up with practice. There is no way a child can learn how to answer them and answer 80 in 50 mins if they have never seen the type of question before.

At this stage I'd focus on what he feels is tricky and just do some mock papers. We did nothing in week or so before exam.

We used to go through practice test together after and DC often could answer the ones she had got wrong so show him the 2 scores what you got and what you could have got if you had checked answer/not made silly adding up mistake etc. Good for confidence.

Also ensure he is familiar with format of paper - putting a line in computer marked box etc. Make sure he doesn't miss any out. Tell him to mark 'c' for the all if he is running out of time. Basic exam technique but they are 10.

elevenplusexams.co.uk has info on all the types of exam and a forum for each area.

Good luck.

I think with new curriculum expectations with maths if bright they study yr 5 topics in greater depth rather than moving on to yr 6 work in year 5 as perhaps would have done in past. But for the grammar test they need to know the yr 6 work.

Depends very much on quality of local comprehensives and entrance requirements. Also, what is the primary like?

DD had tutoring for well over a year - partly because her primary wasn't v academic but mainly because the grammars had a general pass mark for those living in catchment and a much higher one for those living further away.

I'd say you need the tutoring to get that higher mark but, perhaps unlike superselectives, it doesn't mean you'd struggle if you got in as the majority of your cohort would have had a much lower hurdle to clear.

Wouldn't it be nice for all the children if all the parents in England made a pact not to do any tutoring by or extra work outside of school! Fair playing field, and less stressed children.
Where does it all end? Tutoring in y3 to get ahead? Then y2?...,

I guess it depends where you are - if you are looking at super selective then whatever everybody says out loud there will be masses of preparation going on.

My children went to a "superselective" and certainly didn't do masses of preparation. They had a tutor for an hour a week and did about an hours homework. I am sure that some parents did pay for the nose but I think that most of their friends who got in also only did a couple of hours a week (whether or not parents are I think most children are).

whether or not parents are I think most children are

whether or not parents are honest I think most children are

Where we are you also get parents who have spent money on prep school applying for grammers which are very selective which initially offer places to top 12% or so who list them as 1st choice

Prep school have dedicated maths and English teachers from year 4 or even 3.

They have sit loads of test exams and get way more homework etc. Its tough!

DS1 had a go at a practice paper and that was it. Intensive tuition helps pass the exam but doesnt help the years after.

DS1 now goes to grammar school and is quite happy.

Yes that is like our area nottwins. Not all places are filled by in catchment children (we are not a full grammar area only 4 in whole county and have good schools so many choose not to sit for grammar) about 1/3 places are left and are allocated to children living anywhere based on score so those DC will have scored 90% plus. We are in catchment so was pretty sure Dc would pass with some familiarisation prep. Out of catchment I couldn't have been sure she would definitely get 90% plus on the day so I can see why parents in that case tutor more heavily.

We are in grammar catchment but our 2nd choice was an ofsted outstanding 84% a-c pass rate comp. The out of catchment children coming from 10 miles away 2nd choice are poor ofsted with poor gcse results, again resulting in more tutoring and earlier tutoring.

It's wise to do some practice, to familiarise the children with the format, timings, gaps in knowledge.

Lots of parents say they haven't tutored but do hours of practice. What they mean is they haven't outsourced it. I don't think there is any correlation between how much you do and passing. My DD has been tutored since January. She's above expectations at school, has an advanced reading age, and has practised. She'll do well at grammar school.

But, i don't think she will pass. She is a methodical worker and the papers (CEM) don't allow time for working things out. Worst still is her siblings are all at the grammar school, it's where she wants to go. 3000 children are registered to do the exam, and she needs to be in the top 25%. Once they've standardised the score, I just don't think she'll get there.

I am deeply regretting starting out on this path.

I think lots of people lie about the amount of tutoring their kids have. Or they may not be tutored, but Aunty Anne might pop round twice a week for 2 hours to 'help'. And some tutoring/practice is needed - nobody could do well in a non-verbal reasoning test the first time they see one.
The commonly used comment that 'if you have to tutor, they shouldn't be there' is a load of rubbish. Kids mature at different times - my DS was tutored for the exam, messed around through Y7-10, but came into his own in his GCSE year when he started working and got amazing results.
So just because your DC aren't academically motivated at age 10 (and why the hell would they be?) doesn't mean they don't belong at a grammar.
My advice is to give them all the help you can be bothered to/can afford/can access - and see what happens.

Yes on mumsnet tutor seems to be frowned on but 'familiarisation' ok. It's the same thing. Whether paid for or done by family member.

I only know of one DC sent in without ever having seen a paper (friend of a friend 2 years ago) He cried when he saw the VR for the first time and was removed from the exam hall. He had done enough to pass maths and english but no place without passing vr.

Waves at kitchen my ds is siting it today too.
We have done done practice during year 5 and a tutor once a week through the summer holidays.
All of his classmates have had tutors - one girl has had 4!
We shall see what happens......