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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Dear Jacob Rees Mog...

265 replies

MoiraRosesMeltdown · 06/09/2017 11:16

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41172426

.....You may think that abortion is "morally indefensible", and that
"Life is sacrosanct and begins at the point of conception", even in cases or rape or incest.

You can have an opinion on this when you have a uterus, have been raped or have been abused yourself. You can never know why individual women make this heartbreaking decision. You are supposed to represent the public. Keep your insulting, patronising opinions to yourself.

Yours sincerely,
Women of the world

OP posts:
Circumlocutor · 06/09/2017 11:54

As an American, I am quite familiar with this nauseating breed of man.

Despite all appearances to the contrary I believe Mogg is half American himself. His mother was an American Catholic. He’s not quite the old English Catholic, Brideshead Revisited background character he likes to portray himself as being.

SophoclesTheFox · 06/09/2017 11:55

exactly, cory

mmzz · 06/09/2017 11:55

@MoiraRosesMeltdown so you think when she's 9cm dilated, the woman should be allowed to do precisely as she wants with the unborm baby?

Terfing · 06/09/2017 11:56

I feel sorry for his kids and wife.

squishysquirmy · 06/09/2017 11:57

I know Conservative voters who have nothing but contempt for JRM and his ilk. So its not even true that his views wont put off Conservative voters. I also know people who like him, but those people don't seem to know (or care?) much about his opinions and voting record - they like him for his "charming", caricatured, Bertie Wooster, throwback-to-a-stereotyped-England-of-the-past routine.

LetsSplashMummy · 06/09/2017 11:58

The gay marriage is more worrying. It is ok, IMO, that he doesn't agree with abortion as long as he doesn't automatically think his opinion should have a bearing on the rights of anyone else. That's religious tolerance. However, opposing gay marriage implies he does think his opinion should trump the rights of other people. Taken together with his voting record is worrying.

endehors · 06/09/2017 11:59

I bet there are 'omg JRM is so funny' people who are surprised by his views. No, he's not just the charming relic who gets wheeled out on Have I Got New For You.

Absolutely agree.

SpaghettiAndMeatballs · 06/09/2017 11:59

@mmzz

so you think when she's 9cm dilated, the woman should be allowed to do precisely as she wants with the unborm baby

What exactly do you think a woman's going to do to a baby at that point?

Edge cases make poor law.

Making women who have very much wanted babies, but the baby can never survive, continue to carry that baby until there is no heart rate rather than treating them with compassion and sensitivity that's the abhorrent thing here, not these imaginary women who would abort at 40 weeks.

If a woman was wanting to abort at 40 weeks, don't you think that she needs help, not criminilizing? There's clearly something very wrong in her life!

Original poster
MoiraRosesMeltdown · 06/09/2017 12:00

mmzz Of course not. Maybe I worded it badly.

As long as the foetus needs a womb in order to survive, it's part of the mother's body.

OP posts:
endehors · 06/09/2017 12:01

And that too, Squish. It's a bit of a worry, considering the number of people I know who like him and think he's great.

EdithSwanNeck · 06/09/2017 12:04

'I support abortion. I also support free speech and the right of people to hold views and discuss their views without being abused for it. All of this anger and hatred is another symptom of the "progressive" authoritarianism which blights all public discourse today.'

Scatterolight, you are a wise woman....

squishysquirmy · 06/09/2017 12:05

It is almost certainly true that even if he wanted to, JRM would not be able to restrict/remove the rights of women to a termination. The interesting question though, is if he could, would he? If he did have the power to impose restrictions based on his own faith upon all women, would he? I think he would.*
And that's why I don't want JRM to have any more power than he already has.
We really should not be complacent about our rights; if anyone claims that the political landscape of a country can't change overnight, or that unlikely events can't happen, then they've not been paying attention.

*(I did not think this was true of Farron btw, and base this belief upon the facts of their respective voting records)

PoppyPopcorn · 06/09/2017 12:08

I don't think his views are compatible with a lot of Conservative voters, or a lot of Catholics. He's a very orthodox Catholic but a lot of Conservatives are not religious in the slightest.

cueless · 06/09/2017 12:08

I do not want to make an apology of abortion. I think if girls/women get pregnant in certain circumstance it is tragic regardless of whether they choose to keep the baby. Having the choice is crucial though.
Being a mother is hard enough and resenting their offspring everyday is not fair on them.
It's all part of the big patriarchy for men to keep women in a states of inferiority.
I have no time for bigots.

StealthPolarBear · 06/09/2017 12:10

This is thee guy that might be pm fairly soon?
What's the deadline for going to live elsewhere in the eu? Would they want me?

squishysquirmy · 06/09/2017 12:11

All of this anger and hatred is another symptom of the "progressive" authoritarianism which blights all public discourse today.

I don't see much hatefulness on this thread? Some anger, maybe.
We are not talking about a randomer on the street/the internet who holds an opinion we don't like.
We are talking bout an extremely influential, powerful, public figure who is employed by us to represent the British people in parliament. We are allowed to be disturbed by his personal opinions. We are allowed to question his hypocrisy. We are allowed to scrutinise his background and his voting record. There is nothing authoritarian about that. Quite the opposite! Sometimes personal attacks on a politician cross a line of acceptability (especially when featuring threats of violence etc) and that is always wrong, no matter who the politician is. But I have not seen any of that on this thread.

scatterolight · 06/09/2017 12:12

It was striking that my post upthread, on how we need to be able to hold different opinions without being abused for it, was followed by someone calling JRM a "turbocunt".

I wonder where this snarling impulse for aggression and extreme language comes from? It's truly saddening.

corythatwas · 06/09/2017 12:15

Everything squishy said. What becomes of democracy if you're not allowed to say "nobody should vote for this man" or "this man's voting record shows who he is" because that's a sign of anger and hatred? Do we have to say you should vote for them all??? Are we really not allowed to say that some political ideas (homophobia, screwing the poor and disabled) are, in fact, hateful?

KityGlitr · 06/09/2017 12:16

Men are absolutely entitled to an opinion on abortion. They're not entitled however to inflict that opinion on women by making it so that the woman can't make a decision she feels is right for her. But an opinion? He's entitled to it as anyone else. I wouldn't like to be told I had no right to an opinion on an issue affecting just men.

I think it contributes to sexism when people act like only women are affected by abortion. They bear the biggest impact of course as it's their body, but it can affect men too. Ever spoken to a man whose partner had aborted a baby he desperately wanted? I'll defend her right to do that to the end of the earth but it's crazy to suggest it doesn't affect half of the population, the ones who put the baby there and jointly care for it if it arrives (and in some cases men are sole parents too). It keeps reproduction and abortion as a woman's issue, when we all know women's issues are often marginalised. It's all of our issue!

I'm very pro choice btw. And not all abortions are heartbreaking. For some women they're a relief they move on from quickly.

squishysquirmy · 06/09/2017 12:17

turbocunt isn't that extreme/aggressive though for lots of people. Depends on how much you swear, and how shocking you find a word like "cunt", I suppose. (I find it fascinating how much variation there is among us in what is considered taboo). Putting "turbo" in front of it makes it more humurous, to me as well. Like wank badger of cuntweasel.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 06/09/2017 12:19

Speaks to the absolute dearth of talent in the tory party these days. I mean, i've never been a tory voter, but I could at least look at some of them and think that, much as I disagreed with them, they were still sort of sentient, functioning human beings with some sort of moral compass, but this current crop...jesus, they're a nasty, talentless bunch.

You know every Tory MP wow.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 06/09/2017 12:20

We are talking bout an extremely influential, powerful, public figure who is employed by us to represent the British people in parliament.

Actually he epresents his constituency who keep voting him in.

SecretFreebirther · 06/09/2017 12:20

Erm, as a woman of the world, please don't speak for me. I may not necessarily agree with him either but I don't agree that he needs to have a uterus to have an opinion on these matters.

Batteriesallgone · 06/09/2017 12:22

So we know JRM would never have an abortion. OK that's fine. What I fail to see is why he thinks his opinion should have a bearing on anyone else's bodies or choices.

TheClacksAreDown · 06/09/2017 12:22

The guy is an out of touch pompous berk. The stuff about not changing nappies was absurd. However at least he has the saving grace of being honest and clear on his views on this. Far better for his views to be known and people can make fully informed judgment on whether to vote for him as an MP or in any other role.