Don't ever show your boobies - AIBU?

[LovingKyloRen]

Observed from a distance while sitting at my 5YO DS's swimming lesson last week. A Mum sitting near me was talking to her friend and also trying to entertain her DD2 (DD1 in the pool). Little girl was no older than 4 and wearing a swimsuit. It's bloody roasting at the poolside so unsurprisingly she was complaining about being hot, so she took her swimsuit off as far as her waist. Her mum immediately pulled it back up and told her off for showing her boobies. Heard her say "you must never take your top off otherwise people can see your boobies." I thought it was really OTT. My DD is now a teenager and I would never have said anything like that to her so young - AIBU?

This thread is awesome. I am entertained.

Some parents and carers may have very good reasons for installing boundaries over body areas sooner than others.

That's is their business and a matter for them to decide

I'm with Vestal. Shaming female children into hiding their chests before breasts even develop is gender stereotyping misogynistic bullshit.

Shaming has absolutely nothing to do with why I encourage DD (and DS) to cover up. And, being the mother of an adopted child, believe me, I know a lot about shame.

Do those parents typically tell their young female children that they must "cover their boobies"? Is that the accepted ideal way of guiding them wrt boundaries?

I was never allowed to take my t-shirt off at the beach even though my brothers were.... but that was because I burnt so easily! Have seen photos of friends' children on facebook with both brothers and sisters pre-puberty running around with tops off. Didn't think much beyond how much fun they were having.

I agree with you Vestal.

Why would a four year old need to cover her nipples unless this is attributing a sexualised definition of what "boobies" are for - i.e. visual sexual stimulation for men.

A four year doesn't have breasts, she has nipples on her infant chest. Saying that she needs to cover them up imposes adult connotations about what female body parts are for.

Sorry I'm with Vestal. A. Breasts are not private parts and B. Four year old children do not have breasts

Why would a four year old need to cover her nipples unless this is attributing a sexualised definition of what "boobies" are for - i.e. visual sexual stimulation for men.

Unfortunately, in my example, I have to deal with the world as it is. Not how I would wish it to be.

Think about it- why should breasts be covered anyway?

My point exactly. No good reason for that, either, but "they look different from men's chests" is at least a pseudoreason.

Telling little girls that their chests are dirty and wrong and should be covered despite there being NO difference to a boy's chest, messes with their impressionable young minds and sets them up to believe all sorts of other shit. It teaches them that they cannot trust their very own eyes and must rely on an authority to teach them how to behave.

People here sure do have a lot of confident insight into the motivation behind a complete stranger's words told from a second hand perspective.

It's as if you knew her yourselves. Amazing!

People here sure do have a lot of confident insight into the motivation behind a complete stranger's words told from a second hand perspective.

It's as if you knew her yourselves. Amazing!

^ This.

Rape victims do not seduce the rapist by their choice of outfit.

Why do you think covered or exposed nipples has anything to do with whether a child is abused or not? They haven't tantalised or seduced their abuser.

That's the thing though rhoda. Young children haven't done anything to actively seduce their attackers. It's the attackers themselves who are drawn/attracted to them. That's the whole problem, they can't consent.
Hmm. Normally I'd think it was a little OTT but I suppose you can't know everyone's story.

I am 100% with @VestalVirgin on this.

www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10155187428901939/

rhoda you're out of order.

Why do you think covered or exposed nipples has anything to do with whether a child is abused or not?

I'm not sure where to even begin addressing this... so I will assume this post was made with the best of intentions.

I do not think exposing nipples results in sexual abuse.

The fact my DC were (suspected) victims of sexual abuse means their entire 'internal working model' and sense of self worth is skewed.

The long and the short of it, this means they can display sexualised beviour that is completely out of kilter with their chronological age.

As a result, I need to take a number of steps to 'realign' their expectation of what is 'normal' behaviour and what isn't.

So, as an extreme example, I need to help them understand that they don't need to strip off in order to get adults to like them (and get food).

Therefore, I teach them to stay covered up.

No...you can't know everyone's story nor the basis for and/or intent behind their own personal colloquial terminology...but people shouldn't let anything like that spoil their self assurance.

@Emillee and I assume in your quite extreme case that you don't tell your daughter to keep her 'boobies' covered given that itself sexulised language?

No I don't, 5rivers, hence my very first post on this thread, querying whether the OPs issue was with the concept, or the language itself.

Emillee, I understand your very clear post. My comments were made with the best of intentions and certainly not to offend your personal situation with your own children.

My input was about ideological positioning of young girls' bodies in society; not about the healing and care of children who have been abused and subsequently how to normalise their sexualised behaviour and skewed self image.

For me it's the terminology, Telling s four year old she has breasts, and that those breasts should be covered is very weird in my view. This is a very very small child. Not much past infancy. She has no breasts.Telling a child that age she has breasts that need to be covered is just so wrong.

Emillee, I understand your very clear post

Well, that alone is a miracle considering I have had 🍷🍷🍷😂

I understand that as this was an AIBU about a real life situation, alongside your own personal experience of looking after your DD, that this isn't really the place for my line of enquiry to continue. Or at least I should have been a lot clearer about what I was saying.

Totally agree with Vestal.

I can remember starting at junior school when I was 7; it was unusually hot for early September and at playtime a lot of the boys took off their t-shirts and were running around in just their jeans (1970s - no uniform). I took mine off too - I'd just spent the summer wearing just bikini bottoms on the beach so I didn't see anything wrong with it.

The boys started making "ooooh" noises and giggling. I put my t-shirt back on but it pissed me right off - I can vividly remember how angry I felt at the double standards. Why was it ok for the boys to cool down but not the girls? My chest was no different to theirs.

It's utterly depressing that little girls are still being told to cover up their chests forty years on. So much for progress.