WIBU to print off this article and give it to the teacher.

[Imalldonethanks]

DD (8) came home from school at the end of last term talking about the differences in male and female brains (not relating to their weight or structure!). Her teacher had declared she has a 'male' brain because she is logical and rational.
This sort of talk boils my blood.
My next child is in her class this year and I don't want her to listen to this sort of crap.

I get on reasonably well with this teacher, but there are very few opportunities to chat.

So WIBU to print off an article from The New Scientist debunking that theory and send it in with a note saying 'thought you might find this interesting'?

solarisIsAClassic

Is it about actual brain structure? Or about observable traits?

Can one tell from the actual structure how that translates into traits? Like rationality, for instance?

you have elbows like a man. I bet you're good at throwing! Really fantastic. You definitely appear to have a strength in this area. I'm glad I noticed as as a good teacher, I will do all I can to nurture your abilities.
That would be an utterly bizarre thing to say, and I suggest you don't say it around my friend who's into hammer and javelin iirc. She might be tempted to throw something.
Telling someone they're the opposite sex is rarely taken as a compliment. And in any case from OP's posts it wasn't a one off misguided attempt at a compliment, it was a discussion about male and female brains.

If you tell someone good at logic that they have a male brain then yes you are implying that the typical girl is not logical; and that the girl who's good at logic is somehow less female. That's not a compliment.

What's wrong with males?

Well done OP! Diplomatically handled

Nothing wrong with males, but I'm not one, telling me I am is not a compliment.

I haven't suggested females can mask asd for years and years. I'm stating that they are far more likely to conform to societies gender related expectations, so when they should have been diagnosed with asd, they are just viewed as weird, having mh problems, being hormonal etc. All of which then contribute to a vicious circle of the child trying to conform even more, and therefore masking the problem longer.

And I did address the topic of male/female brains, because as I've said whether it's asd or any other statistics you care to use, gender expectations play a large role.

You can conduct whatever experiments or research you like, but with no placebo group, and a bunch of people who have already been influenced by gender stereotypes it's hardly going to prove the biological make up of their brains were the influential factor.

However, when you compare stem results for schools, girls generally do better in single sex schools than co-ed, and it isn't unusual for the girls school to outperform their joint boys school. And I doubt that is down to only girls with man brains going single sex.

Sorry my post hurt your eyes, that was bad even for me. But what can I say, I have a male brain and I am better at maths than writing.

the science isn't actually relevant.
in primary school and possibly education in general teachers need to avoid casual comments that close off avenues to children - because that is the impact of comments like these.

I don't know about the op's children but my daughter will always believe a teacher over me - and I shouldn't be put in the position of breaking her trust in the teacher.

learning to question sources is part of the journey - but that demands a level of maturity

What a load of old shit (in Catherine Tate's 'Nan' voice ).

Kirsty

Do you believe that men are on average genetically better at mathematics than women ?

Absolutely. In particular discrete ('logical') mathematics. The key word in your question for me is "average" though.

Datun

At the edge of my understanding but yes, the structure or use of the brain translates into things like rationality. The brain works through chemistry, structure, processing and activity.

Talking specifically about structure, the difference in the size of the hippocampus as well as the density of connections in it is the example I remember most clearly. Another is that even before birth, there are differences between divisions of labour in the hemispheres, in particular, verbal centres. Boy brains tend to have these verbal centres only in the right whereas girl brains have verbal centres in both sides. It's often used as a reason for women tending to have better verbal reasoning.

I do believe in average differences between sex-brains but I also think that many of these differences are in favour of women. We're likely to excel at so many things that equality is setting the bar too low. I'd take increased verbal reasoning over spatial awareness any day.

catkind

Your friend would likely be much better at throwing something at me if she were male. evidence

You may not like the truth but the carrying angle for women vs men means that women are better at holding children but nowhere near as good at throwing.

Your friend who is into field sports probably understands the differences and understands why she competes in single-sex classifications.

The teacher is correct in what she said. Sounds as though it has touched a nerve and you don't like it.

How is it correct that a girl has a male brain? .

Do you believe that men are on average genetically better at mathematics than women ?

I read some studies on mathematical problem solving last month. One of them showed that girls had less confidence in their abilities and performed less well because of it. Even so, differences were minimal and only evident in certain types of problem.

I'm sure this has been mentioned but I'd the teacher this

www.amazon.co.uk/Delusions-Gender-Science-Behind-Differences/dp/1848312202?tag=mumsnetforum-21

Gawd save us, poor teacher!

It must be hard enough trying to teach these days without watching every tiny little thing you say that could be taken wrongly! There's always someone just ready and willing to be offended, isn't there.

My teacher told me I had "sturdy (aka fat) legs". These days, she'd probably be crucified for that! But it hardly scarred me for life.

Please, she's just a primary school teacher no doubt doing her best, not a fucking Nobel Prize winning scientist and not some politcally-correct robot! Maybe she did teacher training before all this gender neutral crap became fashionable. Most normal people have never even heard of it. I probably wouldn't, if it wasn't for MN!

It's not gender neutral crap to not call little girls illogical. What the utter fuck are you on about?

Also why are people engaging with Solaris they are clearly both a man and a troll

Also massive lol at most normal people have never heard of it

Solaris. Then how do you explain the fact that there are certain countries where girls outperform boys on average in mathematics, and that the difference between average scores is very variable between countries ? Reference here data.oecd.org/pisa/mathematics-performance-pisa.htm.

If this difference was essentially biological, wouldn't you expect to see similar differences in performance in all countries? To me, the fact that the gender difference is highly country-dependent suggests that there is, at the very least, a significant social element at work.

Your friend would likely be much better at throwing something at me if she were male.
If she were a trained sportsman, yes. If she were the average man on the street, not by a long shot.

Let's just make it illegal to differentiate between male and female. But then oh what would the PC Brigade fixate on next?!

Personally I identify as a gender-neutral chicken. And I won't tell you my nationality or my disability or lack thereof. Nor my age. No no no. Let's just pretend everyone is absolutely all the same. Whilst celebrating diversity, of course.

The reason you don't know what the utter fuck I'm on about is because you're all bonkers!

Further, if this difference is essentially biological, why does the percentage of female students amongst mathematics srudents vary from 75% in Saudia Arabia to 30% in Switzerland ?

www.oecd.org/gender/data/percentageoftertiaryqualificationsawardedtowomenbyfieldofeducation.htm

Similarly large inter-country variations in the number of female students can be observed in computing, going from 45% in Saudi Arabia to less than 10% in Switzerland.

www.oecd.org/gender/data/percentageoftertiaryqualificationsawardedtowomenbyfieldofeducation.htm

PrincessWonderRabbit

ODFOD

Why do ignorant wankers see 'man' as the ultimate put down?

FWIW I'm a woman although until now I hadn't felt my sex was important. I'm still not sure how it is. Surely experiences and education are. I mean, not to people like you, obviously ...

Well you've mentioned it to her now so I would leave it. I doubt she has time to read endless reports, articles and theories, and watch documentaries just to appease you.

Do you believe that men are on average genetically better at mathematics than women ?

Absolutely. In particular discrete ('logical') mathematics. The key word in your question for me is "average" though.

How do you explain the differences in different countries, where the culture means girls aren't hampered by stereotype threat, and on average, perform as well as boys in subjects like maths? It's not genetics, it's socialisation and culture.

As well as Cordelia Fine, Gina Rippon and Daphna Joel are also good on this subject.

solaris

So why is rationality and logic considered a male trait, when verbal reasoning is considered a female trait? Doesn't make sense. You can't be good at verbal reasoning without rationality and logic.

To me, this is where the whole thing falls down. Women are meant to be nurturing and natural caregivers, but if you're irrational and illogical, you can't be a good caregiver.

It must be hard enough trying to teach these days without watching every tiny little thing you say that could be taken wrongly! There's always someone just ready and willing to be offended, isn't there.

I once had a Mum scream at me and complain to the headteacher because I said that I clean my teeth as soon as I get up in the morning. Apparently I was wrong because you're supposed to clean your teeth after breakfast.

(It came up in a lesson about writing instructions - we were writing 'How to get up in the morning'.)

This encounter made me completely paranoid about what I said to my class for a very long time.