to think we no longer live in a Christian country

[orlantina]

More than 53% of people have no faith - according to a recent survey.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41150792

That figure changes to 71% amongst 18-25 yr olds.

It surveyed 3000 adults - so it would be interesting to look behind the stats but it seems that more than half the country have no religion.

Christianity is still probably the most common religion out there.

Should this have implications for areas of national life?

Firstly you've got my user name wrong and secondly I don't have a clue what you're on about

I think Engineer is referring to Peter Pan - where all the children in the audience are invited to bring Tinkerbelle back to life by clapping their hands the believe in fairies.

Obviously a keen theatre-goer.

yet don't realise that unbelief or 'atheism' is actually a belief in itself.

No, it's not. Absence of something doesn't make it a thing

Yes, it is. It's a faith stance. It may be a belief in chance, or in physics, or in whatever, but it is still a faith stance. And therefore a belief.

SchadenfreudePersonified

No it isn't a faith stance.

I don't play football.

Can my non playing of football be classed a hobby?

It's ludicrous.

I have twice had my disabled child pounced on by uninvited would-be 'faith healers ' in the street, with an unwanted religious commentary, told the disability is due to my sin while buying a pint of milk

That is disgusting Dope and I can see how it would anger and distress you.

However, in the way that many people have pointed out that not all Muslims are extremists, not all Christians are twats, and many, if not most of us, would never dream of blaming a mother for a child's congenital disability, nor offer unwanted "healing".

If this is you experience, I'm not surprised that you are against Christianity.

Hello Satan have a cup of tea
😹😹 this has made my day. Thank you.

Yes, it is. It's a faith stance. It may be a belief in chance, or in physics, or in whatever, but it is still a faith stance. And therefore a belief.

Atheism is about none of these things though. atheism is about a lack or or rejection of the idea of a deity.

Nothing to do with physics, chance, evolution or anything else.

Certain atheist individuals may or may not have an interest in such subjects, but that's not what atheism is about.

Atheism has no dogma, no unifying doctrine.

Atheism is about lack of faith.

But then I also think wars aren't really ever over religion, and always over money and religion is used as the scapegoat. I don't think we're bombing Iraq to get rid of ISIS tbh... I think we're bombing the Middle East to get richer

Thank you GodConfusion. Money. Power.

That's why there are wars, discrimination and cruelty.

God is an excuse.

I'm not religious OvariesBeforeBrovaries so I have no axe to grind, but things like requiring kids to dress up all the flipping time and suchlike doesn't have a great deal of educational value either. Not everything at any school is purely educational every minute of every day.

I just can't see how something you are totally ambivalent about has any power to harm children. Let me make it clear, I am not talking about selective faith based schools. If you choose to send your child to one of those, then tough; you are accepting religion will be a part of their education. I'm talking about ordinary primary schools.

As I said, my children went to a nominally C of E school, and I was never aware of anything being rammed down their throats. They went to church at Christmas and the end of term (big deal) and I think the vicar came in maybe once a term? If there actually was any more to it than that, then it obviously didn't have any effect on my kids at all, as they didn't come home converted!

If people say they want their children to make their own minds up and choose when they are older, then surely a small amount of religion is giving them the tools to be able to choose? I can't help thinking most atheists would be horrified if their children did choose Christianity.

The theory of evolution has been proven by scientists over and over again (a theory from a committed Christian, Darwin)

Okay - let's move out of religion for a moment to things based on fact...

Maths is a discipline where every concept is only accepted when shown based on earlier proofs - i.e. unless incontrovertibly proven it is assumed to be wrong

Science is a discipline of hypothesis - assumed to be correct unless proven otherwise... a flawed concept in itself it is the human way of dealing with so much we don't understand... but year on year we disprove what was believed scientifically in previous years...

Let us return to Darwin and his theory of evolution - a hypothesis, not fact - a theory.
We also need to understand the wording used - to evolve is different from a concept of Evolution (verb versus proper noun) - there is absolute clarity that stuff evolves - adapting if you like to environment, whether that is as people around the world, or as moths on tree bark, clearly evolution - the verb takes place, and that is totally in accordance with God's planned world and the Scriptures...

However equally there is total clarity that there has never been Evolution - move from one species to another, so until a scientist actually proves a change of species Darwin's theory of Evolution will remain just that - a theory, unproven.

If this were maths - everyone would therefore dismiss it until proven - because it is science it is assumed correct until disproved - however, while there is a lot of clever wording, there is no actual scientific proof that any one species changed to become another... if it weren't for the gravitas bestowed upon the concept it would be laughable - that a fish might become a human - no chance!

So, why do people want this theory to be right - it is simple - as I posted above, the human race is looking to understand / bestow order and logic - to frame how we live / where we came from / where we are going... If as humans we can do this in the framework of some randomly initiated mathematical model then people can feel comfortable and not challenged - they can carry on life in a fatalistic, selfish bubble... However, if this theory is not true, it leaves a gaping hole and questions to answer - if life didn't originate randomly, then there must be order and purpose to its creation - there must be a creator, and that means there must be a framework not created by humans - i.e. we are not fully in control and we would have to then understand what that means - what it requires of us - what choices and decisions we need to make in that new context - and that is scary for a lot of people - easier to invent a pseudo-scientific framework which requires no personal responsibility or action than to have to face up to needing to make choices in how we live our lives...

Atheism is about none of these things though. atheism is about a lack or or rejection of the idea of a deity.

Actually that is a recent lazy interpretation of the word... the etymology is: late 16th century: from French athéisme, from Greek atheos, from a- ‘without’ + theos ‘god’.

to believe in the absence of something is as much a belief as to believe in its existence...

agnosticism is the lack of belief - or the belief that there is no belief!
and ironically in itself, to believe in that means that you are not agnostic as you have a belief ;)

probably secularism is the correct term for most of society... there are actually very few genuine atheists...

to believe in the absence of something is as much a belief as to believe in its existence..*

No.

We are all born atheists.

Bye then, religion! Take take now. Bye bye! Byyyeeeeee!

Akkakk - lol

It's ridiculous semantic quibbling about the usage of the word faith. Not believing in anything is not a faith, just as a previous poster pointed out that 'not playing football' is not a hobby. There are millions of things as a Christian you wouldn't believe in, like Thor or unicorns or a flat earth (probably) but we don't say that your lack of belief in Thor is a faith.

We are born atheist. We wouldn't make God up now unless someone told us about it.

to believe in the absence of something is as much a belief as to believe in its existence..*

No.

We are all born atheists.
------------
As God can not be proven or dis-proven you need belief to have a view either way - therefore atheism has to be a belief... even the BBC would categorise atheism as a religion: www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/atheism/ (though they have now archived this format of pages for a more trendy approach - doesn't change their stance though!)

The theory of evolution has been proven by scientists over and over again (a theory from a committed Christian, Darwin)
No it hasn't. Darwin said " If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slimming gut modifications, my theory would absolutely break down."
Biochemist Michael Behe has demonstrated exactly that through his description of "irreducibly complex" molecular machines.
This in fact turned Darwins theories completely on its head.

The six feet of DNA coiled inside every *one^ of our bodies one hundred million trillion cells contains a four letter chemical alphabet that spells out precise assembly instructions for all the proteins from which our bodies are made. Whenever we find a sequential arrangement that's complex and corresponds to an independent pattern or function (books, computer code, DNA), this kind of information always implies an intelligent source.

But if there wasn't a huge God-industry hanging around from when we were primitive peoples with little understanding of science and shizzles, there wouldn't be a choice. The choice is between a man-made bizarro idea and empirical findings, both from our own experiences and from the learnings of others. It is like saying that not belieiving in unicorns is faith. Why would you believe in unicorns? The choice is not a real choice.

Wombling I accept I'm biased as I went to a state school that was not affiliated with any church and should not have been any more religious than the customary "collective act of worship of a broadly Christian nature".

EVERYTHING came down to religion. Every school visitor who spoke in assemblies etc was preaching about God. Even innocuous things were turned into a Bible lesson. It was shoved down our throats at every opportunity and I was shouted at by teachers for not praying. I wasn't disruptive, I just sat quietly while everyone else prayed, but I was repeatedly shouted at for not saying the words.

It's ridiculous semantic quibbling about the usage of the word faith. Not believing in anything is not a faith, just as a previous poster pointed out that 'not playing football' is not a hobby. There are millions of things as a Christian you wouldn't believe in, like Thor or unicorns or a flat earth (probably) but we don't say that your lack of belief in Thor is a faith.

Such a common fallacy...
of course not playing football is not a hobby - it isn't an either/or - where as God's existence must be an either / or - either God exists or He doesn't exist, there is no alternative.

So every human, must:

• believe that God exists
• believe that God does not exist
• be uncertain - working it out for yourself...

you can't change the core concepts of logic to suit :)

so, if you are not uncertain (option 3) and don't believe that God does exist (option 1) you must believe that God doesn't exist (option 2) - that is a belief.

And as I posted above, as God can not be proven / dis-proven any such belief has to by definition of the words be a faith, because it is a belief in something that can not be proven.

not my view - just what the English words mean...

Faith is a belief in something you have no evidence for.

Not believing in something that there is no evidence for is called being sensible and rational

I have recently moved. Every primary in a 5 mile radius is a church of england school

Because the church owns the land, and was originally responsible for setting up and funding primary schools when the state didn't bother. Most CofE primaries are not selective.

Faith is a belief in something you have no evidence for.

Correct - you can't prove God
equally you can't dis-prove God

Not believing in something that there is no evidence for is called being sensible and rational

maybe :) but a belief in the absence of something is as much a belief as the belief in its existence and as it can't be proven / dis-proven, on your own logic it must be a faith.

And lets be clear - Atheists have a positive belief in the absence / non-existence of God - look at Dawkins and his book 'The God Delusion' (mind you McGrath's book 'The Dawkins Delusion' makes an even better read!).

ultimately it is maybe semantics / labels - Atheism is by all definitions as much a faith / religion as Christianity - the reality is that most people in the UK are not really Atheists... they just haven't engaged / made a decision / believe that there is nothing to debate... Atheism is a convenient label, not an accurate description of a secular approach

But there is no need to disprove God's existence, just as we do not try to disprove the existence of any one of millions of non-existent things that we can imagine, because there is absolutely no evidence pointing to God's existence. I could list millions of things that don't exist but it would be impossible to prove they didn't exist. And why would anyone bother?

Anyway, I mustn't get sucked into this futile debate as I don't suppose anyone was ever convinced in or out of faith by a poster on a message board. And I have work to do.

Not believing in something that there is no evidence for is called being sensible and rational
Also foolish and narrow minded, it's far better to keep an open mind rather than totally rule something out just because you don't have concrete evidence.

Michael Behe is a crank

And akkakk you use a lot of words to try to hide the fact you have no idea what youre talking about and disguise youre just wrong