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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think we no longer live in a Christian country

926 replies

orlantina · 04/09/2017 21:41

More than 53% of people have no faith - according to a recent survey.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41150792

That figure changes to 71% amongst 18-25 yr olds.

It surveyed 3000 adults - so it would be interesting to look behind the stats but it seems that more than half the country have no religion.

Christianity is still probably the most common religion out there.

Should this have implications for areas of national life?

OP posts:

Thread gallery

PacificDogwod · 05/09/2017 18:58

Oh, and wrt to how to dispose of dead bodies, including my own?
I don't think I'll care what happens once I am dead.
I think funeral services are for the living, not the dead.
I have attended boring ones and cringe-worthy ones in churches (one noticeable one where the minister did not remember the deceased's name...) and lovely Humanist ones, one under a star-lit sky. I've not been to a pagan one, or muslim one, and chickened out of going to a Jewish service (?) because I could not stand the idea of having to stay in the women's bit (I should have gone, it would have been so interesting).

Fresh8008 · 05/09/2017 19:02

I quite fancy having a Norse death ceremony. Where I am pushed out to sea on a wooden pyre and someone shoots a fire arrow out causing my body to be consumed in flames.

But it probably ain't going to happen and I dont care that much to organise it.

Original poster

orlantina · 05/09/2017 19:05

Where I am pushed out to sea on a wooden pyre and someone shoots a fire arrow out causing my body to be consumed in flames

I'm sure there's some reason why you can't do that

OP posts:

PacificDogwod · 05/09/2017 19:05

Maybe your loved ones will, Fresh?

Orangeplastic · 05/09/2017 19:18

Father in law had a humanist funeral service, it was lovely because it focused on remembering the person who had died, rather than on worshipping a deity.

derxa · 05/09/2017 19:28

Well actually i went to a funeral today. Church of Scotland and farming community. Church packed for the funeral of an 85 year old. Her son did the eulogy and was overcome with tears and then we all were. Because the son lost his father when he was 20 and we all remembered that and how he and his mother had to carry on the farm. We listened to a sermon and sang two hymns and there was no worshipping of a sky fairy.

Original poster

orlantina · 05/09/2017 19:32

I am sure everyone is well aware that Christianity will stil continue in this country - even if the Church and State are disestablished. The C of E will lose its grip on power - and maybe there will be a positive effect as people find religion for themselves rather than be guided to it by schools and State.

OP posts:

specialsubject · 05/09/2017 19:37

We have a religious believer as head of state, and no one quite dares to start the overdue process of going secular. In a monarch or two time, we should be able to begin it.

As usual I note that only the believers get offended, the rest of us are happy with life of Brian!

Slightlyperturbedowlagain · 05/09/2017 19:46

It interests me how all the prime ministers are miraculously church-goers. Seems to me that for many of them it's a case of a box they feel they have to tick.

heartstornastray · 05/09/2017 20:25

Conversely, some appalling things have been done and continue to be done by people who claim to have Christian beliefs.
Not quite on the scale as what has been done by people who have Islamic beliefs. It isn't Christians who blow up children at pop concerts or plough buses into hoards of people etc. The atrocities committed in the name of Islam in recent years are too many to mention. Before anyone says "that's not the majority of Muslims, they're peaceful, yes we know, just as most Christians are.

varvara · 05/09/2017 20:27

Wow, this thread is illuminating. It definitely confirms my belief that the majority of people in this country don't have a clue what Christianity and the Gospel means any more. And that probably includes many people who self-identify as Christians.

Of course I can't exactly condemn people for rejecting Christianity; the version pedalled by most mainstream churches today is pretty shallow and irrelevant and doesn't give people anything that they can't get from secular humanism. If I was relying on them to present the Gospel and help me understand the Bible I probably wouldn't be a Christian either.

If anybody is actually interested in critiquing the actual Gospel and not a straw man I would recommend "Mere Christianity" by CS Lewis or "The Finished Work of Christ" or"The God Who is There" by Francis Schaeffer. Don't all rush at once...

Fresh8008 · 05/09/2017 20:27

Its pretty normal for PMs to pretend to believe. Its get them the christian vote and others dont care either way.

Jeremy Corbyn was a life long republican until he gets to a point where he could potentially be PM, now he is singing "God Save the Queen" like there is no tomorrow. Power corrupts.

Fresh8008 · 05/09/2017 20:35

heartstornastray Yes I think everyone on this thread would agree that Islamic terrorism (I hope I have phrased that correctly) is a LOT worse than modern Christian terrorism (which is very rare in this country).

We are reflecting on all religion generally, Christianity specifically because its the main one in the UK. But mainly all religion and that is not to equate all modern religions as equal.

Fresh8008 · 05/09/2017 20:40

my belief that the majority of people in this country don't have a clue what Christianity and the Gospel means any more

And that is part of the problem because no one can say definitively what any religion actually means. You ask about the church and you are told the answers are in the bible. You ask about the Bible and you are told your are interpreting them incorrectly. There is just no definitive definition of what Christianity is and that leads us to believe that god is a crap communicator and therefore cannot be an omnipotent being...

Please prove me otherwise.

Slightlyperturbedowlagain · 05/09/2017 20:41

So does systematic institutionalised child abuse count as 'terrorism'? Or the Magdalen laundries?

Fresh8008 · 05/09/2017 20:42

PacificDogwod
I have told my loved ones to not waste a penny on me once I am dead. Hopefully all my bits will be given to donors and to science so there is nothing left to bury.

DragonNoodleCake · 05/09/2017 20:44

Religion didn't cause wars, people caused wars, they just used religion as an excuse.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. People make the guns and shoot them

People are particularly shitty to other people

By choice

Original poster

orlantina · 05/09/2017 20:44

varvara

Do you think we should have an established Church and State in the UK?

OP posts:

coconuttella · 05/09/2017 20:55

Its pretty normal for PMs to pretend to believe. Its get them the christian vote and others dont care either way.

I don't really mind either way, but where's the evidence that they 'pretend' to believe? Also, it's quite possible to find value/solace/inspiration in religious ceremony without believing in every word.... i expect most people are on some kind of spectrum of belief, even most Christians, though it's interesting how threads like this seem to attract committed atheists like bees to honey!

coconuttella · 05/09/2017 21:00

A lot of evil had been done in the name of religion... it doesn't follow that religion is necessarily evil. In the same way that historically a lot of evil had been carried out by men or politicians or nations... it doesn't follow that all men/politics/countries are evil.

I'm not arguing that religion is necessarily a good thing, just that this particular argument is flawed.

derxa · 05/09/2017 21:08

it's interesting how threads like this seem to attract committed atheists like bees to honey! Yes and they don't sound like happy people.

Original poster

orlantina · 05/09/2017 21:13

it's interesting how threads like this seem to attract committed atheists like bees to honey

TBF - this thread is about not living in a Christian country, given that more than 50% of people have no religion - yet we have a State religion - so you'd expect non believers to comment on such a thread.

If that's ok with Christians?

OP posts:

Original poster

orlantina · 05/09/2017 21:14

coconuttella

Do you think we should have a State religion and an established Church?

OP posts:

Slightlyperturbedowlagain · 05/09/2017 21:14

i expect most people are on some kind of spectrum of belief, probably these threads attract atheists because we are keen to dispel ideas like this. I was brought up as a very committed Anglican. And trust me if there's a 'spectrum of belief' I've fallen right off the far end. I think people sometimes hedge their bets because no one likes to believe they will eventually die. And life's tough, so I have no problem with other people having a religion provided they treat others appropriately and I'm also happy to respect their beliefs provided they don't impinge on mine. But don't try and convert me or tell me I can't live according to my values because of your religion.

derxa · 05/09/2017 21:17

Do you think we should have a State religion and an established Church? You're talking about C of E which I was a member of but in Scotland it's a different kettle of fish

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