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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be amazed it's taken so long for a Steiner school to be shut down over safeguarding issues?

116 replies

QoFE · 03/09/2017 23:14

And the biggest bestest shiniest one in the UK at that - Kings Langley

I'm aware it's a touchy subject and that MNHQ have been threatened with legal action for allowing open discussion of these and other issues on here so I won't go into my own experiences (I have done in the last under name changes but I think all the posts got deleted).

Suffice to say this does not surprise me in the least.

OP posts:
Lucked · 04/09/2017 20:19

I had a friend who sent her child and it started off lovely when he was 5 but as he got older bullying became a problem and they were hopeless, just would not address it directly, theredidn't seem to be a good way within their philosophy of dealing with it.

JemmyBloocher · 04/09/2017 20:19

They don't deal with bullying because it's not in their ethos. The child has to deal with it themselves.

Pizzaexpressreview · 04/09/2017 20:23

Jemmy do tell?!

Lucked · 04/09/2017 20:25

Steiner nurseries seem quite popular around here and they seem to get good reports at inspections but it doen't seem to work with older children.

Pizzaexpressreview · 04/09/2017 20:25

I mean what happened? What was it like working there and why did you have kids there and take them out?!

custardcreamplease · 04/09/2017 20:32

I have some admittedly second hand experiences of steiner schools, and it seems like they do kindy/younger ages very well, then it goes fairly tits up for older kids.
Interesting that a PP mentioned some Steiner children being precocious re the Internet and sex. This is something I've noticed creeping in with some Steiner/alternative lifestyle families. I think it's because there's always been a focus on a certain level of independence - children handling their own campfires, cooking and woodcraft (which I do think is good) and i suppose in the age of ipads and WiFi, for some parents it's a short step to make. Especially when you're focused on "honouring their curiosity/not curtailing their spirit" to the exclusion of all else

godconfusion · 04/09/2017 20:50

OT slightly but we used to attend a Steiner playgroup

I quite liked it. It felt calming and crunchy and pastel

But DS would far prefer bright colours and lots of stimulus... it wasn't right for him and he's loved regular education much more

Whatslovegottodo · 04/09/2017 21:01

caldersteiner.org.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2017/07/CVSS-Report-for-publication-SIS-2017.pdf

Not just a one off with the terrible ofsted. I checked another at random and this one is awful as well. I wonder if it is a theme - I don't have time to check any more out right now but it's certainly concerning.

RaingodsWithZippos · 05/09/2017 06:24

2bees I think less to do with promotion of free school policy (now anyway, since the current SoS has been incumbent there is a more forensic examination of issues at free schools) and more to do with reduced headcount of civil servants due to austerity cuts.

Albinohedgehogs · 05/09/2017 06:51

I was once told off when volunteering for a morning in a Steiner school, because one of the children was asking why it had suddenly got darker outside and I told them that it was because the sun had gone behind a cloud. The teacher took me to one side and said that 'we never tell children the reasons for things, we inspire their imaginations instead -tell her that Mr sun is hiding behind Mrs cloud'.
Confused

Pizzaexpressreview · 05/09/2017 07:21

!!!!! That's the opposite of education. Gosh.

Only1scoop · 05/09/2017 07:35

I've been having a google with interest

TBH I'd be put off by the generic 'rustique' style signs they all seem to have outside.

Makes them look like dodgy American summer camps

newbian · 05/09/2017 07:50

Does anyone know why they all use the same font for their signage and websites? Is it a requirement?

BertrandRussell · 05/09/2017 07:54

The children's art is also always very similar and in very similar colors.

Mothervulva · 05/09/2017 08:12

I know a few people who have attended Steiner schools and someone whose dad taught there. The anecdotal reports from them are mixed. On the one hand they lived he emphasis on wood crafts, art and outdoor activities, but found having the same teacher for years difficult. They also all admitted having large gaps in their general knowledge and none of them had many, if any formal qualifications. In fact my flatemate who attended was doing a levels whilst holding down a job when he was 27. He was bitter about this (his father was the Steiner teacher). I used to live near one in London that was a nursery and I wouldn't have sent my child to it based on what I'd heard/read/knew about these schools.

Mothervulva · 05/09/2017 08:12

*loved the

Greebz · 05/09/2017 08:32

I thought Ofsted didn't inspect private schools, only state schools? Anyone able to clarify?

IdaDown · 05/09/2017 08:35

reports.ofsted.gov.uk/index.php?q=filedownloading/&id=2695173&type=1&refer=0

Steiner academy Bristol, May '17 - main findings say it all.

AnUtterIdiot · 05/09/2017 08:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IrenetheQuaint · 05/09/2017 08:40

I think Ofsted get involved if there are safeguarding concerns.

IfYouGoDownToTheWoodsToday · 05/09/2017 08:44

We have local one which has a cafe. The food has a great reputation, so a friend and I went for lunch.

I couldn't wait to get out of the place. The cafe is within school grounds and the general public are just wandering around Hmm. Whilst the food was lovely the room itself was filthy, sticky tables, floor was filthy etc. The was also a very weird atmosphere. The was a male teacher of some kind, he was surrounded by middle aged women absolutely fawning/flirting over him. One asked him to her come to her house that evening. I've no idea of who these people were, but to witness it all on school grounds was rather worrying.

brasty · 05/09/2017 09:24

I didn't know all this and have been doing some reading.
www.quackometer.net/blog/2012/11/what-every-parent-should-know-about-steiner-waldorf-schools.html

Also read that they believe that encouraging children to be analytical young, is dangerous and that if children ask how things work, they should be given explanations involving fairies or gnomes.

I had always just seen it as a bit crunchy, I was wrong.

craftsy · 05/09/2017 10:42

In a nutshell what is a Steiner school? Never heard of it.
The general impression that's given about Steiner schooling is that it is a holistic approach to education, that for the early years focusses on outdoor play in nature and art and leaves academic subjects until later. So between 4 and 7 children spend their school days playing in the woods, painting and dancing. They learn practical outdoor activities like campfire building and woodcraft, they also learn to play music and crochet. They avoid technology.

It's a schooling system that's grown hugely in popularity over the last decade because more and more evidence is showing that children benefit greatly from delaying formal education in early childhood and they need far, far more outdoor play than this generation is getting. It also plays into many parents fears about screen addiction. So on the surface it seems like a really great alternative to traditional school, so much so that in many countries some Steiner schools have been adopted by their department of education and are available as free state schools. Which gives them great legitimacy.

What Steiner very much tries to keep quiet is that the schools aren't just pro-nature. They are very, very, very much anti-science. I've known of teachers who have gotten in trouble for using accurate scientific terms to describe a natural phenomenon. (Much like what Albinohedgehogs describes about the sun and the clouds.) Because apparently using accurate terminology stunts a child's ability to appreciate the beauty of nature. They are also extremely religious, if asked about this they will tell you they are spiritual, but the reality is that they will teach in a way designed to indoctrinate the children in a form of polytheistic and pantheistic modern paganism where gnomes and fairies are real.

But far worse than any of that. Steiner philosophy is stunningly racist. Steiner had vile, vile ideas about white supremacy and the infantile but dangerously influential darker races. And all his disturbing, nasty ideas form the core of Anthroposophy, the spirituality behind Steiner schools. The children aren't outwardly taught Anthroposophy (which is how teachers and parents of students defend the schooling system against accusations of racism) but parts of the curriculum are designed to subtly sow some of those ideas in the students and make them open to Anthroposophy as adults.

I know that most people who send their children to Steiner schools have no idea whatsoever about the reality of Steinerism. They just want their children to go to a school that they think is quite like the Finnish system with extra trees. My DS attends a truly amazing forest preschool and there is a movement headed by some of the parents to open a Steiner primary on the grounds. Because really, they just want a forest primary with delayed formal learning and by following the Steiner model the school is very likely to become a free state school within a few years. I went along to a few meetings about it because I would love for my son to stay where he is and just spend his early schooling years in a playful environment. But it was quickly obvious that the crazy aspects of Steiner would dominate the way of teaching, even though the parents and teachers from pre-existent schools denied it. I also had the good fortune to hear from a former Steiner teacher who enquired if it would be possible to take the job but not teach the nutty parts (not her terminology) and was told that wouldn't be acceptable. So I know that it will be full Steiner.

Does anyone know how closely European Steiner schools are linked with the UK ones and if there's reason to be concerned that there could be the same 'culture' there in terms of safeguarding concerns?

I've been told by the former Steiner teacher that Steiner is a protected, copyrighted educational term so any school using the name Steiner is strictly controlled by the European Council for Steiner Waldorf Education (ECSWE). So I'd strongly suspect that the same culture runs through all of them.

craftsy · 05/09/2017 11:00

And lastly. Back when I was considering sending DS to the Steiner primary if it starts in his preschool i found my self doing a lot of mental gymnastics. "I don't like the idea of them teaching him gnomes and fairies are real - but I've told him Santa and the Easter Bunny are real so I'm sure he'll just grow out of their nonsense in the same way that he'll eventually let go of Santa." "He can already read and do maths so he can just attend the Steiner for fun socialisation in the woods and I'll help him continue with his more 'academic' interests on his own terms at home."

Then I read up more and more on Steiner's racism and I started thinking, "I'll monitor that very carefully and if DS starts bringing home racist ideas I'll step in and remove him if I have to." And it eventually occurred to me that, that was the absolute definition of white privilege. Someone with non-white children would never be able to have such a right-on, slightly cautious attitude. If their children started to pick up racist ideas at school, those would be ideas that could hurt them personally for the rest of their lives. No-one would knowingly be willing to send their children to a school where they risk being told in 100 subtle ways by a trusted teacher that they were inferior to their classmates. They just couldn't take that chance. So no matter how lovely, and right-on, and would march for civil rights, and have black friends, the parents of Steiner students are, they are perpetuating a racist system that deliberately excludes non-white families. Steiner schools obviously don't state they have 'white only' admittance policies but their whole way of teaching makes it that way.

dangermouseisace · 05/09/2017 14:06

I did some educational research with Steiner/mainstream schools.

The Steiner schools thought that learning through play etc was unique to them, and had the idea that mainstream schools have kids sat in rows behind desks learning in a very academic style from age 4. I think a lot of people send their kids there as they have the same, erroneous, ideas.