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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Holiday rental and religion

248 replies

Whattodowithaminute · 02/09/2017 19:17

Have just returned from a lovely week in France, holiday rental marketed as being very child friendly and true to their word the property/gardens are. What wasn't mentioned is the clear following of religion from the owners which was evident throughout the property; psalms on the welcome book, 'power of a praying wife in the bedside drawer' children's bible in the children's room to name a few bits. I know I don't need to read any of this if it isn't to my taste (which you may have gathered it isn't) however AIBU thinking a holiday rental should be more neutral territory and that these items shouldn't be on open display?

OP posts:
SenatorBunghole · 03/09/2017 08:16

Anybody who can't see the difference is wearing their special "a little bit of religion can't do any harm and you might learn something" glasses. Which presupposes, as many people of faith do, that others don't believe the same as them because they just don't understand.

Fascinating that you presuppose the people who don't agree with you must all be religious. Despite the fact that several in this thread have said otherwise.

Decaffstilltastesweird · 03/09/2017 08:18

Oh sorry I went off on a rant about wanker relative there and forgot the op!

Um... don't really know if YABU. It is a bit odd to have these things on display. I don't think I'd do it as the owner of a rental property, for fear of offending an atheist or maybe someone of another faith. I don't see why a little warning couldn't have been included in their description. I say that as a churchgoing christian.

Decaffstilltastesweird · 03/09/2017 08:18

Ha x post senator!

BertrandRussell · 03/09/2017 08:19

Fascinating that you presuppose the people who don't agree with you must all be religious. Despite the fact that several in this thread have said otherwise."

No I'm not- I just recognize a few names Grin . Fascinating that some people are assuming anyone who doesn't care for it is an atheist........

IDoDaChaCha · 03/09/2017 08:21

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans ah, nothing like a bit of patriarchal religious twaddle to brighten up your holiday. Can't see how OP wasn't just extremely grateful to have the opportunity to learn how to be a better wife...

Crumbs1 · 03/09/2017 08:22

I can think of many, many things I'd be more upset about in a holiday cottage. It's a couple of books. They cannot harm you any more than reading The girl with the dragon tattoo.
It is you that is attaching a particular significance to them (as many atheists do) when in fact, the psalm is an ancient song and most children enjoy stories like Noah's Ark as much as they enjoy the Gruffalo.

strawberrisc · 03/09/2017 08:23

A bit off topic (and I'm an athiest btw) but apparently a lot of bibles in hotels and motels have prevented suicides.

IDoDaChaCha · 03/09/2017 08:25

(France? A religious country? That shows a shaky grasp on history and the current state of the Republic in which religious symbolism is banned in civil life!) I thought the same. Hard to appreciate how pp missed all the news coverage of France banning religious effects from schools...

BertrandRussell · 03/09/2017 08:27

"I can think of many, many things I'd be more upset about in a holiday cottage"

So can I.

It is a bit disingenuous to say that there is absolutely no religious significance to religious writings and artifacts about the house and it is all in the fevered imaginations of the atheists, though!

SenatorBunghole · 03/09/2017 08:29

The problem with your claim about just recognising a few names Bertrand is that you said anybody who can't see the difference. Ie, all of us who disagree with you. If you'd just said that some people evidently thought that which you knew because they've got previous, you'd be fine.

I'm also interested to hear who you think reckons anyone who doesn't care for it must be an atheist. After all, at least one person in this thread who seems to object appears to manifest non-Christian religious beliefs, and another who agrees with OP is actually a Christian.

RhiWrites · 03/09/2017 08:30

If you holiday in France you will encounter Catholicism.
If you holiday in Israel expect to find Judaism.
Holiday makers in the UAE will encounter Islam.

This is reminding me of the trip adviser thread. Yes, YABU. 'Abroad' is not a homogenous beige Ikea land. You will encounter evidence of other religions and their practice. That's part of the point of travel, isn't it? Broadening the mind and so on.

BertrandRussell · 03/09/2017 08:34

Sorry, Senator. You are obviously taking this much more seriously than I am for some reason. I just said what I perceived. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry.

I'm just not very keen on creeping evangelism. Tell the truth and shame the Devil say I!

BertrandRussell · 03/09/2017 08:36

"Abroad' is not a homogenous beige Ikea land. You will encounter evidence of other religions and their practice. That's part of the point of travel, isn't it? Broadening the mind and so on"

What-by going to France? Grin

Madhairday · 03/09/2017 08:45

Meh. I'm a Christian, and if I made a conscious decision to indulge in passive-aggressive conversion strategies in my holiday let I certainly wouldn't leave The Power of a Praying Wife lying around. I've read it in the past, it's not misogynistic twaddle about being a good little wifey - it's about wanting good things for your dh, and there is a whole series - praying husband, parent etc - but it's just a bit twee, really. I imagine it got left in a drawer by mistake.

Tbh if I was the owner I probably wouldn't leave a book with psalms on as a visitor book as I'd want to be careful to make it a welcoming place for all, without people made to feel uncomfortable. Children's Bible in with other books - meh.

I was in a holiday let once where there were a load of books about fishing on prominent display. They neither offended me or converted me from my vegetarianism.

I think you're a bit u. The place isn't wallpapered with images of the crucifixion. But on the other hand, I'd always be careful of other's feelings. My approach to it is if people want to have a chat with me and ask questions I'm more than happy. If not, then I don't shove it at them, for that is insensitive. However, not sure this can be seen as shoving it at them.

And yeah, the penis thing is a bit tired, really, in the realm of sky fairies and spaghetti monsters.

kateandme · 03/09/2017 08:52

don't see it as something they are against or opposed to your way of things.difference isn't a bad thing.
id like to think they weren't doing it to shove anything in ur face.its part of them so they were perhaps just keeping a bit of personal touches.which happens to be their faith.it could have been a love of art or doilies.or monet.
its only offensive if you ee faith and different faiths or beliefs as being right or wrong.

RhiWrites · 03/09/2017 09:10

Bertrand, just because France is geographically close doesn't make it the same. It's not Allo Allo!

BertrandRussell · 03/09/2017 09:13

"Bertrand, just because France is geographically close doesn't make it the same. It's not Allo Allo!"

O course it isn't. I fail to see how the praying wife is an example of cultural difference though. Particularly if it was in English!

ErrolTheDragon · 03/09/2017 09:23

I'm an atheist but think YABU, op. Holiday rentals can surely contain anything legal.

In hotels I usually want to use the bedside table drawer for my own stuff so the Gideon bibles get shoved under the bed where I hope they stay.

I was a bit surprised when DD once went to a residential course at an activity centre exclusively used by school age kids and run by the council, and that had a gideon in each dorm. However, the group of girls in hers bonded by tearing it apart - not literally, critically. I'd have liked to be a fly on the wall for that!

JacquesHammer · 03/09/2017 09:31

It is you that is attaching a particular significance to them (as many atheists do)

I am an atheist. I have a load of hymns on my playlist. My daughter has a children's bible because she asked to read the stories.

I wouldn't for a minute be offended. I would however think the owner had an agenda. That agenda might make me decide not to stay at the place again - which is obviously as acceptable as the owner making the decision to leave them there.

MissEDashwood · 03/09/2017 10:13

The playroom being called The Dungeon maybe a bit ott. (Joke!) But trying to spread a bit of cheer, you don't/didn't have to touch the book, it wasn't compulsory, just a token gesture.

Is it advertised on TA as a Christian based place?

MissEDashwood · 03/09/2017 10:19

I don't think it's done with the thought 'Yay, they'll be Catholic in 7 days.' Plus Psalms & other excerpts can be quite useful for every day life. I don't know what people imagine the bible is used for, but it is relating what you've read to something that may have happened.

If it was Buddhist quotes it'd be trendy, as it's Christian 'meh' which is sad.

How many none Buddhists post related stuff as they find it helpful.

MiraiDevant · 03/09/2017 10:30

Is it just Christianity OP or when you travel to other places do you complain about the various "religious" symbols.

When I holidayed throughout Asia rooms often had Buddha or scripts and scrolls or holy artifacts in them. And a holiday cottage is not like a chain hotel room - it is let as a part of the local experience. If you want totally neutral go for a chain

YABU

CheerfulYank · 03/09/2017 10:33

Were the Psalms written into the guest book by the renters, or were they part of the book? I've seen notebooks and stationery loads of times with Bible verses on.

MiraiDevant · 03/09/2017 10:35

Actually one of the best places we stayed in , in Cyprus, had not only board games but a brilliant bookshelf. It kept me happy for the whole holiday.

Maybe the evil owners were pushing their taste/politics etc on me - and I didn't notice!! Grin

OutwiththeOutCrowd · 03/09/2017 10:50

Parts of the bible are anti-Semitic and hostile towards alternative belief systems. The Catholic Church still officially believes that non-believers are going to Hell. This is backed up by passages in the bible.

Buddhist teachings do not make such distinctions amongst different religious tribes.

I think this is the reason that the presence of Christian artefacts can feel more oppressive to outsiders than Buddhist ones.

I don’t think leaving a book like the God Delusion on the bedside table of your rental property is a good idea either. Dawkins is quite mocking in his depiction of believers and this could feel oppressive from the theist perspective.

Obviously people go to other countries to experience a different culture and that might include visiting religious sites but I do think that the accommodation itself should be free of religious texts and symbolism, particularly if passages in the sacred texts of the religion concerned contain harsh criticism of those who subscribe to alternative belief systems.