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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Holiday rental and religion

248 replies

Whattodowithaminute · 02/09/2017 19:17

Have just returned from a lovely week in France, holiday rental marketed as being very child friendly and true to their word the property/gardens are. What wasn't mentioned is the clear following of religion from the owners which was evident throughout the property; psalms on the welcome book, 'power of a praying wife in the bedside drawer' children's bible in the children's room to name a few bits. I know I don't need to read any of this if it isn't to my taste (which you may have gathered it isn't) however AIBU thinking a holiday rental should be more neutral territory and that these items shouldn't be on open display?

OP posts:
Willow2017 · 03/09/2017 03:33

The owner obviously believes in this so put a psalm in the visitors book.
Reading a psalm won't convert you.

A book in a drawer won't jump out and leech into your brain overnight.
A book in your kids room could be stuck in the drawer with the other one or even left on the shelf it's not going to actually affect your kids from a shelf.

Why couldn't you just ignore it all?
Nobody forced you to actually read the books.

Gideon bibles have been in drawers in hotels all over UK for donkeys years I don't think anyone was ever harmed by one going psycho on them.

Live and let live. Its their house they can put whatever they like in it.

MaidenMotherCrone · 03/09/2017 05:29

This is great news, I'm giving our holiday let the full Wiccan treatment as no one seems to mind the Christian stuff, fairs fair and all that.

Dawnedlightly · 03/09/2017 05:37

Cadenza if not heard of it until this thread- I've now ordered it. 😉

CheerfulYank · 03/09/2017 05:51

I hate that old chestnut about religion being like a penis. I think it's the part referencing the kid. it was spray painted on a wall I used to walk past on my way to work a dozen years ago or more, and I used to give it the Hmm face every time. (Though, to be fair, the vandal/artist had done great work and it was quite colorful and pretty. :o )

YABU. It's odd to me to think of a book lying passively around as something being "shoved in your face." Reminds me of my grandpa complaining about two men he saw discreetly holding hands once. :o

blueonblue · 03/09/2017 05:57

I agree about the religion = penis quote. It's okay till the last line, at which point it becomes abhorrent and way off the intended tone.

I agree with you OP, I think it sounds over the top. I also do not think it sounds like a place owned by French people, it sounds like English speaking evangelicals.

To me this is one of those things where I think it's not unreasonable to decorate your guest house to reflect your beliefs but it's also not unreasonable to find it a bit much as a guest with different beliefs. So I would go for a much more neutral decor myself, to make my guests as comfortable as possible.

ChilliMary · 03/09/2017 06:32

If it's a rental - a business, it should be kept free of religious objects/paraphernalia. It would really annoy and irritate me.

BertrandRussell · 03/09/2017 07:07

It's not a massive deal. But "passive evangelizing" is annoying and I would certainly expect a holiday landlord to put thus sort of stuff away, particularly in a secular country like a France in 2017. Were I holidaying by time machine to 1960s Southern Ireland then obviously expectations would be different.

supermoon100 · 03/09/2017 07:19

So would would 'the god delusion' by Richard Dawkins be ok or is it just pro religious books? How about an old copy of the daily mail lying around, would that turn one into a narrow minded right wing bigot? Or can you just not read something and think ooh now there's another point of view!

BertrandRussell · 03/09/2017 07:25

It would be a bit bizarre to have The God Delusion on the bedside table too.

But it is not a religious text. I know many people of faith seem to think it is........

LoniceraJaponica · 03/09/2017 07:40

I find it ironic that some of the atheists on here are so superstitious about religious artefacts and books Confused

I wouldn't class it as passive evangelising in the slightest. I would just ignore it and put it in a drawer and enjoy the rest of my holiday.

coconuttella · 03/09/2017 07:50

YABU. Atheism seems to be the an area where intolerance and closed mindedness is seen as acceptable.

Psalms on welcome book? Presumably something like 'the Lord is my shepherd...' or something. Surely just poetry that you take or leave. Like all poetry, you don't have to be Christian, or even a believer in god to find some value to it if you're prepared not to be too literal. In fact, Psalms are Jewish pre-Christian poetry adopted into the Christian Bible at a later date.

Children's Bible?.... surely a set fairy stories if you're an atheist and no more offensive than any other fairy stories..... And even if you are a Christian, many of them take of a mythical form unless you're a fundamentalist.

'Power of the praying wife?' I have a range of books in my house, from the Bible to Richard Dawkins.... I don't agree with every word of each of them of course, but it's good to be open, and their presence under my roof doesn't offend me. Sometimes I find enlightenment from books that don't mirror my worldview... It helps make you realise that even though we have different beliefs/lack of beliefs, there's something of value from a different perspectives. Maybe this book could have had something useful in it?

BertrandRussell · 03/09/2017 07:51

How do you know who's an atheist? I know lots of people of faith who would prefer not to have the praying wife thing on their bedside table and psalms on the visitor's book!

MissEDashwood · 03/09/2017 07:53

Some of the replies 😂

MissEDashwood · 03/09/2017 07:53

If they had nudes everywhere I'd be a bit more wary.

londonrach · 03/09/2017 07:54

Yabu and ott.

LoniceraJaponica · 03/09/2017 07:55

I hadn't even heard of the praying wife until this thread.

SenatorBunghole · 03/09/2017 07:56

Cheers ofafrenchmind!

Mein Kampf was quite a bad example for that poster to use to make their point, because there must be a great number of people who read some or all of it when studying. The same is true of the Bible, Qu'ran and I suppose Marx too, but in those cases there are many more believers than there are with Hitler. I expect the percentage of Mein Kampf owners who are believers is lower than the percentage of Qu'ran owners who are Muslims, for example.

Also, there are some pretty decent yarns in the Bible. Whereas Mein Kampf is just shit.

This is great news, I'm giving our holiday let the full Wiccan treatment as no one seems to mind the Christian stuff, fairs fair and all that.

Fill your boots. You'll have every right to do, and guests will have every right to vote with their feet. Personally I'd still struggle to locate a fuck, suspect the same is true for the majority of the population. I mean, yawn.

AnnieAnoniMouse · 03/09/2017 07:57

Did the Praying wife cook & clean for you?

No such luck I guess.

I don't have a single religious bone in my body, I'd have just rolled my eyes. Then again, I'm used to hotels & motels having a bible in the bedside drawer.

If it was just a psalm on the welcome book and two books in drawers, I really don't see the problem. It's not like it was all over the walls or that they asked you to do/not do specific things because of their religion.

Mushroomburger17 · 03/09/2017 07:57

YABU. Atheism seems to be the an area where intolerance and closed mindedness is seen as acceptable

My atheism is a direct response and intolerance of the close mindedness of religion. I view religion from a Marxist perspective which means I see it as damaging. As such, I do get really pissed off at attempts to constantly preach and convert people.

OutwiththeOutCrowd · 03/09/2017 08:02

People want to de-stress on holiday. If they are paying to stay in a house you own, it’s only fair that you give some consideration to creating an environment in which they will feel at ease and not just go with what would make you comfortable. So be aware that your religion can be alienating. People may even choose to look round a church during their stay out of curiosity yet at the same time not wish to be confronted by religious tracts in their accommodation. This could easily detract from a ‘home from home’ feel.

It’s all about being sensitive to different mindsets. I’d suggest removing the Bibles and replacing with The Little Book of Calm, or similar, providing up-lifting religion-neutral words of wisdom in bite-size chunks – possibly in a few different languages.

A sculpture or some sort of representation of a crucifix can be disturbing to those who have not been desensitised by familiarity to what is depicted. An updated version would be a sculpture of Jesus being tortured in an electric chair and most people would be uncomfortable with that in their living quarters – though such a sculpture was in fact displayed in a French cathedral a few years ago.

IDoDaChaCha · 03/09/2017 08:03

Whattodowithaminute I wouldn't like finding all that had there been no mention of there being religious paraphernalia on their website and when booking. If I found stuff like that and seeing it annoyed me I'd gather it all in a bag and put the bag somewhere out of sight with a note inside to the owners saying something along the lines of 'not everyone is religious'. I'd also review it on TripAdvisor etc so others know what to expect. I can't imagine a Muslim or Jewish family being too thrilled to have Catholicism shoved down their throats in their holiday let. I'm atheist and it would irritate me. Holiday lets should be appealing to as broad a group of people as possible. Or they should just go ahead and market it as a Catholic retreat so they get appropriate custom.

BertrandRussell · 03/09/2017 08:05

Don't care what books are on the shelves. Care slightly about stuff on bedside tables. Anybody who can't see the difference is wearing their special "a little bit of religion can't do any harm and you might learn something" glasses.

Which presupposes, as many people of faith do, that others don't believe the same as them because they just don't understand. When of course we all know it's the other way round. [self aware irony emoticon]

blueonblue · 03/09/2017 08:06

I strongly suspect that the books and posters were not there just as part of a family's normal life paraphernalia, but left there specifically in the hopes of having a good/converting influence on the guests.

BertrandRussell · 03/09/2017 08:12

Agree, blue. Otherwise why the psalm on the visitor's book?

Decaffstilltastesweird · 03/09/2017 08:14

Would I get complaints on TripAdvisor if I left a load of stuff about atheism and losing your religion around my rental? Of course I would. So religious people shouldn't do it either.

^^ from page 1. I wouldn't complain. I'm a Christian and most of my family are atheists. One of my relatives is an especially evangelical atheist, (really rams it down your throat you know)? I have bought him several, excellent looking atheist books as gifts. Feckless wanker hasn't read them though.

PS: He is a big wanker, but that's nothing to do with his atheism. More to do with him leaving his wife and babies and fucking off with an OW and refusing to get his shit together to properly care for his dc who he rarely bothers to see or support Angry, but that's another thread!