John Lewis removing gendered sections in kids clothing

[moutonfou]

John Lewis has announced they are no longer having 'boys' and 'girls' clothing sections. Just kids clothing. Which to me sounds fair enough. I had to buy several football shirts from the boys section as a kid and always felt like they weren't 'for me' and that someone was going to notice and call me out on it.

On some of the news outlets' Facebook posts about this, there are the most OTT comments from people who seem to have interpreted this as an attempt to make all kids be 100% gender fluid, stop calling them boys and girls at all, make all boys wear dresses, etc etc.

AIBU to be frustrated that people can't see the value of just letting kids like what they like, and that it's not all some sinister agenda??

Why shouldn't girls wear clothes designed for girls and boys - for boys?
There is no issue with having some gendered clothing, it's just at the moment there is a very narrow range of clothing.

For example when I needed a thin coat for my DD this summer, every single one I saw in all the shops that I went in only had pink coats with frills on, in a short cut and was impractical for keeping her warm. The boys ones on the other hand were practical and in a much wider range of colours.

What is a problem is that the clothes go up to a size 12, so very soon my 7 year old won't be able to wear your clothes as she's in an 11 or 12 already.

I've noticed this with DS2. Most of their stuff fits, but their tops seem to be 75% weirdly small. I've bought stuff a size up, thinking I could put it away and it barely fits him immediately. So he's got loads of size 12 tops that are more than a bit snug but several pairs of size 11 joggers which fit just fine.

Why such a desperate need to make the clothes neutral for children when they are clearly gendered for adults?

Because adults are the other side of puberty. Prepubescent children are all the same shape, except for their pants.

Hope that helps.

Most men don't have boobs and curvy hips like most women do, Mandala.

It may not have escaped your attention that such difference in shape doesn't exist in young children. Why the hell does a 5 year old girl need a t-shirt with waist shaping?

I bought DS2 a cute t-shirt online, once - with a button moon picture on the front. It was a soft orange. It was only when it arrived that it became apparent that it had waist shaping and was clearly a girl's t-shirt (even though the most shaping 5 year olds tend to have around the waist tends to be a little pot belly, which would make this t-shirt fit extremely badly)

I think this is great. I shop the whole store when buying for DD. It annoys me no end when I see a t shirt with a space rocket or cool animal on it and the label states it's boys clothing. What message does that send?

I'd love to see more primary colours as well. And clothes they can run around and play in. I don't want to dress my kid as a mini adult.

In reply to a few posters above: men's and women's clothes are not only different in cut to accommodate different body shapes, boobs, etc. They are also often different in textures, patterns, colours, details, designs, etc. So purely bases on what is preferred by males and females aesthetically.

Archery, a boys t-shirt would resemble a man's t-shirt. I.e. would have a colour that a man would wear (an for an average man, pink or purple would not be his first choice), wouldn't have feminine embellishments, would have themes which are popular among boys.

Although t-shirt is indeed one item that can be made unisex most easily. With most other clothing, there is a feminine look and a masculine look. Same as with adult clothing. Nothing wrong with that.

On their website it still has girls' and boys' clothing sections.

Why shouldn't girls wear clothes designed for girls and boys - for boys? Why such a desperate need to make the clothes neutral for children when they are clearly gendered for adults?

I honestly don't know where to start with this.

Women's clothes are different because women have a different body shape.Not many women dress exclusively in pink and purple. Thankfully, there are many options available for those of us who don't like wearing pink and purple. Unfortunately for my small daughter, she doesn't have so many options. Because she likes cars, trucks and trains there are literally no options. If she wears them anyway, she gets teased for wearing 'boy's clothes'. This is wrong on all levels. Who designates that cars are for boys and princesses are for girls? People who are trying to sell more products. Again this is simply wrong.

Wildrose, every single shop would have a wide selection of girls clothes in colours other than purple and pink. For babies - yes, pink/blue themes will prevail. Not for older children. I have one of each and never had a problem buying non-pink things for my daughter.

I don't think brands will start actively produce girls clothing with trucks because they won't be able to sell many. You have got to admit that your daughter is in the minority. Most girls are not interested in trucks enough to wear them on their shirts.

Why aren't more little girls interested in trucks and cars though? As many women drive cars as do men. It is because we are fed ideas and notions and it results in gender division. Dress a boy and girl in neutral clothes and let them decide who and what their interests are instead of it being dictated to by shops.

"Most girls are not interested in trucks enough to wear them on their shirts."

Both of mine would have, when they were young toddlers. Trucks are exciting. But by the age of three or four, my daughters had learned that they were not supposed to like trucks.

There are lots of motifs and colours that could happily be worn by both boys and girls, and not be considered especially gendered. Shops like John Lewis and Next used to offer these 25 years ago. But things changed because retailers realised that 'uni-sex'- t shirts and pyjamas could be more easily handed down in families, which of course savvy retailers don't want - they want us buying more.

It's in the shops' interest to 'gender-ise' their children's clothes in as extreme a dichotomy as they can manage, in order to make more sales. That's why almost every girl's item will have a heart or a flower on it somewhere, even if it's not pink or frilly, and boy's items so often feature monsters, skulls and sharp-toothed animals (along with dreary, muddy colours). It was brought in as a deliberate policy to create more sales. Nothing to do with customer preferences at the time, IMO.

"I don't think brands will start actively produce girls clothing with trucks because they won't be able to sell many."

Well, if more shops do as JL is doing, and display clothes by item, rather than in segregated sex/gender sections, then they win need to. Their items will sell to the DC who like them (or whose parents like them) and the potential customer base has just increased.

They will then manufacture more of the things of the type which sell the best.

I doubt think many brands actullay write 'girls' on the label, so they won't have to make any changes at all. And they'll still do as they do now, and make what sells.

Good point, kesstrel

I wonder if JL's structure made any difference at all. They still want to be profitable, but they're a mutual. And they have their 7 principles - one of which is about community and wellbeing.

Most girls are not interested in trucks enough to wear them on their shirts.

Well it's statements like that that cause girls to think they shouldn't be.

I've got an ad for Fairy along the right hand side of this column. The baby in it is wearing a white top with dark stripes. Could be a boy, could be a girl. That's the kind of clothes my DD and DSs wore and the kind of clothes I strive to buy for other people's children and the kind of clothes I choose to buy for me. Unfortunately, they sometimes come with a flower or a truck on them, which is a shame and not necessary. Far more practical and useful in a family with children of more than one sex.

But I always did hate pink, frilly clothes for my DD. She recently asked me why she didn't like pink, frilly clothes and we were trying to work out whether it was her or me. The reverse must also be true for girls who do like pink, frilly clothes. On the whole, when they're very small, it's conditioning from the parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles etc.

I don't get this. Girls have always been able to wear boys clothes. They might get called a "tomboy" (which is normally seen as a compliment) but nobody would really care.

Yes they do. I have a "non standard" dd.

Last christmas she wanted a pirate watch. So we go into swatch, find the carousel with the big pirate display, treasure chest etc. A shop assistant came over almost immediately and guided us over to the pink and glittery carousel, "here are the girls ones, those are for boys".

It happens a lot. Shop assistants, relatives (in laws!), random strangers. Last week she bought something with her pocket money, same thing came in blue/animals, or pink/princesses. She chose blue, only to be challenged at the til if i knew she'd chosen the "wrong" one, and the pink ones were over there. People assume we haven't realised there's a girl version, rather than believe a girl would prefer the boys.

The amount of times i've overheard parents say to their child you can't do/have that, it's for boys/girls. On here i see many people justify it as "protecting" their kids- no i wouldn't let my child do that, it's for boys/girls and they might get bullied.

I also hate the word tomboy. Why is emulating boys seen as a positive. Why can't girls be who they are and like what they like without being complimented on being something different. mine doesnmt want to be a boy. Would be insulted if hou called her a tomboy. She's a girl. A perfectly normal girl.

I saw a pirate set the other day & thought of a little girl I knew who'd probably love it. Unless the pictures of boys all over the packaging put her off .

I've just seen a trail which says that BBC Breakfast is about to discuss this.

Awwww I love gendered clothes.

My 4week old DD will only wear pink. And you should see her face when she puts on her Princess outfits.

She won't leave the house without a bow three times the size of her head either. I think it's because she embarrassed at being bald .

I just let her choose.

I went to John Lewis specifically for baby stuff yesterday and considering our closest John Lewis is notoriously crap for kids clothes, the new section made shopping a lot easier.

Dresses were together but everything else was very blended.

We are not a pink bows and frills kind of family and it was nice to go somewhere that I could get girls clothes that weren't pink on the whole.

Also, I'm happy that there are finally things with dinosaurs on them that aren't cartoon or in a boys section.

Although t-shirt is indeed one item that can be made unisex most easily. With most other clothing, there is a feminine look and a masculine look. Same as with adult clothing. Nothing wrong with that.

But lots of adult women occasionally want to wear clothes that you'd deem "masculine", and a goodly number of men occasionally want to wear clothes that you'd deem "feminine". Nothing wrong with that, either.

Dresses aren't going to disappear, neither are suits and ties. Why not just put them on sale and let whoever wants to, buy them?

It goes further than clothes. I went into Smiggle to buy a present for my niece. I wanted something that looked good, but I didn't want it to be pink or purple or to be covered in sequins. Just something neutral, something stylish. Turned out to be a big ask, so had to go elsewhere.

Archery, a boys t-shirt would resemble a man's t-shirt. I.e. would have a colour that a man would wear (an for an average man, pink or purple would not be his first choice), wouldn't have feminine embellishments, would have themes which are popular among boys

Why don't men wear pink or purple?

What are feminine embellishments?

Why are such embellishments 'not for boys"?