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Original poster

John Lewis removing gendered sections in kids clothing

572 replies

moutonfou · 02/09/2017 12:46

John Lewis has announced they are no longer having 'boys' and 'girls' clothing sections. Just kids clothing. Which to me sounds fair enough. I had to buy several football shirts from the boys section as a kid and always felt like they weren't 'for me' and that someone was going to notice and call me out on it.

On some of the news outlets' Facebook posts about this, there are the most OTT comments from people who seem to have interpreted this as an attempt to make all kids be 100% gender fluid, stop calling them boys and girls at all, make all boys wear dresses, etc etc.

AIBU to be frustrated that people can't see the value of just letting kids like what they like, and that it's not all some sinister agenda??

OP posts:
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Chestervase1 · 05/09/2017 15:11

Eolian yes dear I do get the picture with regard to colour. May I point out that some of us have husbands and sons who have always worn pink and don't need John Lewis's or anyone else's permission to wear it. As the poster above says most young boys are wearing pink, purple and gold already. They don't need validation to do it.

Cutesbabasmummy · 05/09/2017 16:14

Montsti exactly!! Also its not actually going to change the clothes available. Jeez it cant be that hard to go and buy a spiderman t shirt from the boys section for a girl?! Seems to me its the mums of girls who are generally in support of this, and not mums of boys...

Cutesbabasmummy · 05/09/2017 16:25

Lweji the first t shirts are boys, the second are girls. But I don't want to have trawl roud the whole of M and S or spend hours on a website looking for boys stuff because all the clothes are mixed up! I have bought my son girls leggings from M and S as there were none in the boys section. but I am intelligent enough to be able to do that!

Lweji · 05/09/2017 16:37

The point is that neither are really boy's or girl's. They can easily be worn by either, even with stereotypes.

It makes more sense to me if they are all in the same place.

I'd still have to trawl through the entire M&S site or shop to find the black and grey tops which are fine for DS.

reallyanotherone · 05/09/2017 16:55

I said upthread that it took me ages to find a school jumper in m&s because i had no idea that jumpers were "for boys". If the school jumpers and cardigans were all together in a "uniform" section i'd have found it easily

The jumper actually had on it "boys school uniform".

It's not about intelligence, i have a phd ffs. But how on earth am i supposed to know that jumpers are now designated as boys, when they weren't the last time i bought one.

It makes more sense to me to group by function, than by some arbitary societal rules.

Eolian · 05/09/2017 17:08

don't need John Lewis's or anyone else's permission to wear it.

No, I know. That's the whole point. Nobody should need permission to buy the clothes they like. That's why there's no need to give boys permission to wear certain clothes by labelling them "boys' clothes" or putting them in a specific section for boys, and girls by labelling them "girls' clothes" and putting them in a section for girls. Getting rid of the need for 'permission' from shops or society for your child to wear the clothes they want to wear is precisely what this kind of move achieves.

MrsHathaway · 05/09/2017 17:18

Mum of three boys here, firmly in favour.

I'd love to see my children in brighter colours than black, grey or sludge. 6yo is growing out of his and there's nothing to replace it. They're painfully conscious of what's "for boys" and "for girls" despite my best efforts.

For example, today I spotted a new flavour of Soreen minis for break snack. Toffee! DC would love that! Picked it up, spotted Frozen Elsa & Anna on the wrapper (on each cake) and put it back. No bloody point. They wouldn't be seen dead with them so no use.

GreenTulips · 05/09/2017 17:39

I said on another thread popped in tesco for a ruler

The choice was blue or pink

That's it - why? Why can't there be green or orange ones?

irishe · 05/09/2017 17:49

Not strictly about JL but my 5 year old DD started school recently. I had the interesting (!) experience of perusing the clarks back to school range. Girls shoes on one side of the shop, boys on the other. Girls shoes, mostly entirely unsuitable for Uk winter outdoor play, open Mary Jane style mostly. One puddle jump and soggy for the rest of the day.
DD tried on the one girl style that looked sturdy but it didn't fit well.
My eyes strayed to the boys shoes, rows of sturdy looking black shoes.

Hmm, a plan was forming! Whilst DD was distracted I grabbed several suitable looking shoes from the boys selection. Gave them to the assistant helping us, asked if there was any difference in fitting, she confirmed no difference at this age. Requested the assistant bring them in DD's size and not mention they were boys. The shop assistant agreed it was ridiculous to separate the shoes by boy/girl at this age.

Daughter was delighted with her comfy shoes, which also came with a funky glowing key ring and a squid pic on the sole.

We had a successful shopping outcome but honestly I found the whole experience frustrating.

  • why were the shoes available targeted to female children so rubbish and designed for looks rather than functionality?
  • if the shoes, had been marketed as "back to school shoes for kids" I would not have had to enter into a faintly ridiculous deception with the clarks sales assistant. I do not know if my daughter would have rejected the shoes if she had known they were shoes marketed for boys but at the end of a long shopping day I couldn't take the chance of an argument.

John Lewis have got it absolutely right and I will be more likely to shop there now to avoid the ridiculous experience I had in Clarks.

Give me clothes/shoes for children that are comfortable and functional. Doesn't seem to much to ask for.

NoLoveofMine · 05/09/2017 18:06

Excellent points irishe and your experience shows why this is a positive move which as well as not limiting children and trying to force them towards certain styles/colours etc will also make the whole experience of shopping a lot easier for parents and children. The designs of shoes and other attire which are "for girls" is a major issue as well I think, so often being about aesthetics rather than practicality, which limits girls in many ways and has the potential of ingraining damaging views of themselves in them.

reallyanotherone · 05/09/2017 18:06

Irishe, give her a couple of terms at school and chances are she will definitley know she has boys shoes.

Other kids will take it upon themselves to enlighten her, as their parents or older siblings will have told them.

Which is why we need to get rid of the boys/girls split.

I bought our school shoes in jl, and it was much easier to just look at "school shoes" which encompassed everything from mary janes to lace ups. Much more of a genuine choice.

AppleAndBlackberry · 05/09/2017 18:09

I'm not particularly excited about the layout of a clothing store, what I would like to see is clothes for girls being less extremely gendered (I only have girls but the same would probably be true for boys clothes if I had a boy), and available in a wider range of colours and themes. DD1 liked dinosaurs as a toddler, had a brief princess phase, now likes blue and Minecraft and animals and strongly dislikes pink. It's not that easy to find clothes for her. DD2 likes 'girly' but she's so messy that it would be nice to find clothes for her that aren't pastel colours.

Paperclipmover · 05/09/2017 18:40

Is your website due for a change too John Lewis? It seems odd that that's still divided by gender AND age. It's much more difficult to shop on line for a 7 year olds jeans, pjs or t shirts if you have to look at older girls, younger girls, older boys, younger boys.

conserveisposhforjam · 05/09/2017 18:42

I've got a boy and I think what's on offer for him is arguably shitter than the fluffy bollocks aimed at dd.

And so fucking what if it was just mums of girls welcoming this? Girls are people too dontcha know?

wejammin · 05/09/2017 18:45

Sorry I've not RTFT all the way through so don't know if anyone else has already said this -

I was in John Lewis yesterday, everything was the same as before, a great big (literal) wall between the "pink" area and the "blue" area, and the "pink" clothes had a label on that said "for girls and boys", and the "blue" clothes had a label on that said "for boys and girls". So the labels aren't even gender neutral because they put the more likely gender first.

I think JL are just trying to jump on a bandwagon without offending more conventional consumers, because they've not committed to doing it properly.

Cutesbabasmummy · 05/09/2017 18:57

Yes conserveisposhforjam I was a girl so am aware they are people. I do agree that the clothes supposedly aimed at boys are generally awful. I just think this whole thing has gone way to far. Why not go the whole jog and not bother with men's and women's clothes either!

GreenTulips · 05/09/2017 19:39

The girls round here all wear the Addidas hoodie which according to the website are 'mens'

I saw a few older teen boys at the week end in skin tight ankle length jeans - same as the girls ones

Other kids will take it upon themselves to enlighten her, as their parents or older siblings will have told them

Sad but true - hopefully we will rid the world of this ridiculous nonsense and let boys and girls be free to chose their clothes based on comfort

Lweji · 05/09/2017 19:53

Seems to me its the mums of girls who are generally in support of this, and not mums of boys...

Another mother of boy here, supporting this.

And who's had to look in the girl's section for stuff for him.
Scarf
Crocs
Wooly tights as a baby.

TheAntiBoop · 05/09/2017 20:19

I used to get ds' tights in gap or germany as much more fit for purpose

I bought a pack of 6 pencils - dd7 had first choice and said 'well I had better take the pink and the purple as I don't want my brother being bullied'

Ds (colour blind) thanked her because although he doesn't care he agreed he would get comments

So it's more than clothes that are a problem! Poor pink - totally hijacked!!

Lweji · 05/09/2017 20:21

Yes, my son refused a pink coloured book even though he selected all other available colours for school.

GreenTulips · 05/09/2017 20:49

I agree look at shaving gel! And as PP said cereal bars 'aimed' at girls - some boxes 'aimed' at boys -

It's good ffs

irishe · 05/09/2017 22:34

Honestly, I know this isn't the biggest issue in the world, but I feel really sad, that there seems a consensus that some random kid will tell my DD that her funky shoes with a squid emblem that she loves are only for boys.
Actually scrap that, I feel annoyed not sad!
Honestly I don't understand how anyone can think that these gender imposed stereotypes/social norms are doing kids of either sex any favours. It's like all these gender rules are lying in wait ready to trip our kids up. Abolish them all I say!

Yes, it has been a long day and I need to get to bed . . .

ArcheryAnnie · 06/09/2017 10:29

but at this age I don't mind my boy going I want the soldier blue and girl saying she wants equivalent in in pink with unicorn on and I still think these are gender specific

If that's what your kids want, then that's fine, and they can still choose those clothes, kateandme. (Though I disagree with you that they are "gender specific".)

surely it should be fixing people thoughts and stigmatic views than chanign how clothes have been since forever.im sorry I still want people to create girly and boyish clothes and for my two different sexes to be exited by wanting them.

The clothes will still be available. They will just be displayed all together, and not marked as for boys only, or for girls only. Any kid will be welcomes into wanting them without making them feel bad because they are "not for them".

but if they ever chose to want from the other side or for her to want boys jeans or him a different top then so bet it.its us that then should not mind or not be horrible not the clothes to change.

99% of the clothes won't change. It will just be less stigmatising for kids to buy the ones they want without boys being told they are "dressing like a girl" or girls told "that's not for you - it's a boys' top". It's because some of us have made it clean that we don't mind, that because John Lewis don't mind, that this change has been made.

EvilDoctorBallerinaDuckKeidis · 06/09/2017 10:30

Oh, DD would absolutely love this! 😆

ArcheryAnnie · 06/09/2017 10:31

was in John Lewis yesterday, everything was the same as before, a great big (literal) wall between the "pink" area and the "blue" area, and the "pink" clothes had a label on that said "for girls and boys", and the "blue" clothes had a label on that said "for boys and girls". So the labels aren't even gender neutral because they put the more likely gender first.

wejammin - thanks for the info! We will need to work on them a bit more. < rolls up sleeves >