John Lewis removing gendered sections in kids clothing

[moutonfou]

John Lewis has announced they are no longer having 'boys' and 'girls' clothing sections. Just kids clothing. Which to me sounds fair enough. I had to buy several football shirts from the boys section as a kid and always felt like they weren't 'for me' and that someone was going to notice and call me out on it.

On some of the news outlets' Facebook posts about this, there are the most OTT comments from people who seem to have interpreted this as an attempt to make all kids be 100% gender fluid, stop calling them boys and girls at all, make all boys wear dresses, etc etc.

AIBU to be frustrated that people can't see the value of just letting kids like what they like, and that it's not all some sinister agenda??

It's a great start.

Both of my kids went through a phase of being very reluctant to shop in the section designated for the "wrong" gender. That wasn't because they specifically wanted frilly pink clothes. It was because they wanted to do the "right thing", to conform with society's expectations of them. The labelling of "boys'" and "girls'" sections in the clothing shops were, in their eyes, directive. My kids were very receptive to the message that boys and girls SHOULD want different things, that these distinctions were significant, and that they couldn't choose otherwise without fear of ostracism or ridicule.

Just a couple of months ago I found a pair of shoes which fit my child perfectly, were practical and comfortable, and looked good. She agreed with all of this but still spent ages fretting over whether people would know that her shoes were really "boys' shoes".

Don't even get me started on toyshops.

madwoman

They are talking about putting all the clothes together, not as far as i can see making all children wear the same clothes...that would be economic suicide

This is great and I hope more shops follow their example. I would love to be able to enter a shoe section, a trouser section etc and not just a girls shoe section. And I hope it leads to a greater variety in gender neutral clothes.

My kids were very receptive to the message that boys and girls SHOULD want different things, that these distinctions were significant

That's exactly it. Kids are really sensitive to these things and when the wider world casually enforces pointless gender stereotypes it's just really sad.

Quite agree Saracen. The people saying "this is unnecessary just buy your children the clothes you want to buy them" have never faced a rule-driven five year old who suddenly has hysterics when the perfectly appropriate red welly boots they loved and chose are revealed to have the wrong label. And it doesn't have to be full melt-down. Anxiety, teasing, mulish refusal to wear. Not serious but annoying and entirely preventable and removed by a simple change to labelling.

Is this also for babies? I'm trying to shop for my baby (I'm due in 9 weeks). I'm having a girl, but I'm sick of buying pink for my daughter. I just cannot dress my baby girl in clothes that only say, beautiful, special, twinkle little star, and sickly pink flowers and stuff. We're planning on bringing her home in a R2D2 onesie, the last thing we want is to put her in all pink items. I also think, what about people who decide not to find out the sex of the child before its born? They have so few options! Most of the boy's stuff says, cool dude, top man, best dude, etc. I started buying a bunch of onesies that had dinosaurs on it, and the lady at the til said, oh is this for your little boy? I said no, its for my little girl.

While they mix the type of clothes available, can they also make more non gender specific clothes?!? And change the idea that girl=pink, boy=blue? And quickly!

Im just laughing at all the stupid people who won't be able to determine if a pink frilly dress is suitable for their daughter because it will no longer say 'girl' on the label.

This is hilarious from upthread: So how am I supposed to tell what's a boys and what's a girl's?

If you can't tell from looking at the actual garment whether it's 'for boys' or 'for girls', that just proves that it is for either!

And whoever said 'But boys' and girls' trousers are cut differently/bootleg etc'. That's just fashion (which changes - men used to wear bell-bottoms) and the shape of your child. Pick a style of trousers that fit and suit your child. My dd is 11, skinny and not at all curvy (yet). 'Boys' trousers' often fit her better than 'girls' trousers'. And she loathes pink. Why should straight, skinny trousers with no unicorns or sparkles on them have to belong in the boys' section? They are just as appropriate for girls. Why does my daughter need to feel she is buying things that are not for girls? Should she assume that because she isn't a certain body shape and doesn't like a certain colour, she is therefore not a girl?

DGD wore a lot of her older brothers clothes and played with his old toys.
But she picked up on stereotyping very quickly. After a few months of nursery, (when she first played with other girls) she was able to list which girls were prettiest, in order, whose hair was best ...pale blonde waves, that girls drink from pink cups , that blue eyes are prettier than brown eyes. Etc etc.
Makes me sad, they are 3/4.

I trawl both sections when choosing clothes for DGD. She loves planes, cars, dinosaurs and prefers leggings, jeans, dungarees to dresses. So having both girls and boys clothes all together is great. I really hate the whole pink/blue and flowers and cute animals v dumper trucks and superheroes divide in clothes. And in toys too. Pink Lego etc really pisses me right off. Some shops have had unisex clothes for babies but not for toddlers and older children. J L are the first to hopefully dismantle the pink, cute and bland girl v blue and roughy toughy boy clothing rules.

Excellent post Eolian.

Excellent post Eolian.

Thanks. It's frustrating. Dd is often mistaken for a boy (because she has short hair ), even when she is not wearing particularly 'boyish' clothes. She doesn't like pink, frills and sparkles, and very much prefers skinny-fit, plainish clothes, but she wears a wide range of colours. What really pisses me off is not that people think she's a boy (although I find that surprising because she really doesn't look like one). It's that some people assume she wants to be or look like a boy. Nope. She just likes to wear the colours and styles that she likes. I find it more annoying than she does. She just thinks people are a bit silly!

She's right! It's ridiculous to assume girls like your daughter want to be or "look like" boys (and vice versa for boys who like things stereotypically associated with girls). As you say, she's being herself and wearing what she likes - attempting to push children towards specific clothing is regressive and restrictive. This is a good move by John Lewis.

"Is this also for babies?"

Yes and no. The JL babywear section has been arranged as a babywear department (not separate boy baby and girl baby) since at least the time mine were babies (so getting in for two decades). So no change required there.

Whether you find clothes in there that you like is a whole separate question.

I bought pink stripy leggings for DS2 this summer. He's 15 months old, has a little bit of a tan, lots of bright blonde hair, very short fat legs with lots of fat rolls and he looks BLOODY brilliant in them. Fuck gendered clothing.

eolian

I think there is a slight difference in the cut or sizes between girls amd boys jeans.

I can't explain why but I had to buy dd some specifically coloured items for a costume for school.

Now we weren't fussy where they came from we went shopping witg the intention of getting this item

We did end up with a "boys" pair if jeans however the fit was TERRIBLE. It made no sense no but I do think there is a difference in how they are cut.

Things like joggers there's probably nothing but the colour that's different but I can't explain why these jeans were so awful when a pair of virtually the same jeans or what you would assume would he the virtually same jeans from the girls section fitted better (but weren't right colour)

Obviously however people should still have free choice to try on without the label and I'm sure there are many others like your dd who have better luck with the fit

I went to buy dd a new school jumper. Spent ages in m&s, searching in the school uniform bit. Found the cardigans, dresses, skirts, etc, no jumpers.

Thought they might be out of stock, went back a few times, no luck.

Asked an assistant when they might be getting more school jumpers, and she redirected me to the boys section.

I absolutely had not thought to look in the boys, as i hadn't realised there seems to be a "boys/jumpers, girls/cardigans" thing now.

Fortunately dd is ok about wearing "boys" stuff, although she has a few friends who's parents have to hide the labels as they wouldn't wear stuff "for boys".

It's getting fucking ridiculous. Good on john lewis.

I think there is a slight difference in the cut or sizes between girls amd boys jeans.

Yes, there probably is a difference in the cut or sizes of jeans which shops have designated as boys' or girls' jeans. But the point I was trying to make was that children of both sexes come in a spectrum of shapes and sizes, and so do clothes. There is no actual need to decide that any particular cut of jeans has to be for boys or for girls. People can try on a range of jeans and see which fit best.

Following on from what eolian said

I know a few teenage boys who wear jeans from the womans side of the shop as they cant get them skinny enough

Ds1 accidentally put dds jeans on the other day...she was mortified as they fit him

I'm currently pregnant and I find most high street shops are a sea of pink or blue baby stuff with maybe one or two outfits in white/grey. I don't understand why all the clothes for newborns seem to be pink or blue? Surely the baby doesn't care?

Monsti the issue is there are hardly any neutral clothes out there. Even baby wear the plain white ones is for girls have a little frilly trim. Nothing wrong whatsoever with floral or pretty things, or particularly 'boyish' clothes but it would be nice to have more neutral choices too.

The fit isn't all down to being a boy or girl, though. There's plenty of ds1's old trousers that ds2 never wore because they were the wrong shape.

Same here pick

I had an ex who liked to shop for himself in places which sold men's and women's clothing eg River Island. He would sometimes find something he liked and head for the till, where he would find out that it was from the women's range.

He would be furious at having been misled. I mean, his own EYES and BODY weren't enough, it had to have the right fucking label in it as well. It was 100% his issue and nothing to do with the clothing.

Ex. But anyway this debate reminds me of him, and not fondly.

Meanwhile, The Entertainer removed its boy/girl labelling a few years ago (though not the very pink/blue zones) and people made much the same objections as I'm reading here. But today nobody cares. Those who really want to conform to socialised gender stereotypes still buy dolls for girls and cars for boys.

'm currently pregnant and I find most high street shops are a sea of pink or blue baby stuff with maybe one or two outfits in white/grey. I don't understand why all the clothes for newborns seem to be pink or blue? Surely the baby doesn't care?

No, but the parents/grandparents do.

I put my week old dd in one of ds's blue blankets. So many confused people "but i thought you said you'd had a girl".

If you ask people why they want a girl, they will nearly always include "so i can dress her in pretty clothes".