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AIBU?

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Australia to drug test welfare recipients

195 replies

Carolinesbeanies · 31/08/2017 10:56

AIBU to totally agree with this?

www.newscientist.com/article/2145603-australia-plans-random-drug-tests-for-people-receiving-welfare/

(Not dumping and running, but Im working a late today and wont be back till late evening. Didnt want to let this article go under the radar!)

OP posts:
Copperbeech33 · 01/09/2017 15:51

We're talking about common substances which give false positives on a drug test which you support requiring from benefits claimants

it is not going to give a false positive on the tests we are talking about, it will give a positive on the tests that athletes take.

FallisMyFavourite · 01/09/2017 15:57

Rich people - those who run our government, banks, etc - should be routinely tested for drugs.

YABU to think only poor welfare recipients should be drugs tested.

MrsTerryPratchett · 01/09/2017 16:02

www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/poppy-seed-drug-test-minimyth And the Bishop of Croydon did a similar test years ago. I assume he's not a heroin addict, although you never know.

WinnieTheMe · 01/09/2017 16:25

MrsTerryPratchett - you never can be sure with those religious types. I bet bishops get public money too. Probably should be tested.

MrsTerryPratchett · 01/09/2017 16:30

True dat. Test all the Bishops. They have access to free wine as well don't they?

OvariesBeforeBrovaries · 01/09/2017 22:18

it is not going to give a false positive on the tests we are talking about, it will give a positive on the tests that athletes take

If they screen for amphetamines, anyone on Ritalin etc risks having a false positive.

With our current government's track record of "sanction first, ask questions later", how many people could find themselves without money for weeks while trying to prove their innocence if such a system was implemented over here?

MaitlandGirl · 02/09/2017 00:27

But there have been false positives on the roadside drug tests and it's only after people have insisted on additional blood tests that they've been cleared.

GreatFuckability · 02/09/2017 00:32

thanks MrsTP for saying everything i wanted to say without me needing to say it.
gross, dehumanising bullshit.

corythatwas · 02/09/2017 00:34

Fascinating. So if you are someone who can't find an employer to take you on due to your severe SEN, you are expected to have the same extensive knowledge as a professional athlete about exactly what goes into common food stuffs and why you can't eat some of them because you may be drugs tested?

PenelopeFlintstone · 02/09/2017 04:13

If you had severe SEN you'd be on a Disability Pension. That isn't included in the trial. Only the dole.

PenelopeFlintstone · 02/09/2017 04:13

The Carers Pension isn't in the trial either.

RumerGodden · 02/09/2017 04:33

Totally happy for stupid gov to drug test welfare recipients as long as the next step is intensive intervention, rehab, counselling and support if needed. They could check for diabetes, heart problems, mental health as well......sort of a free check up with guaranteed follow on care....oh, hang on......no, just more divisive shit politics from our shit pollies.

Should sack the lot of them.

ilovesooty · 02/09/2017 05:14

Great posts on the subject as always MrsTP

Carolinesbeanies · 02/09/2017 08:49

"They are not the same as welfare recipients."

This is being proposed specifically for unemployed (those seeking work, Job seekers allowance) and students. (Im unclear what welfare benefits students receive in Aus, but here we dont provide 'welfare' to full time students and part time students would be excluded unless they were parttime/unemployed).

So my reading of this was extremely specific regards the fit and healthy unemployed. Its clearly a contentious proposal, but its muddying the waters claiming disabilities, the dying, etc would be impacted. Absolutely not.

So several further points:
To argue the case that addicts are victims, would those doing that, say they should automatically fall into the 'disability' category and therefore be eligible for disability benefits due to their limited capacity to work? In short, are they 'disabled' not unemployed?

Second point, (because I dont agree with the first), many professions drug test. They can sack you on the results of drug testing. They can request drug testing on application for roles. At present this cost is fully met by employers. Would it be unreasonable for all employers to drug test applicants? Is this something that, without government intervention of any sort, will become far more widespead within the working population anyway? If so, we would indeed have category of job seekers, who are unemployed specifically due to failed drug testing, and therefore 'unemployable'. What dark hole do they then fall down in the absence of any government intervention?

As it stands, unemployment benefits can be stopped if you lose a job due to 'behaviour'.
Is one of the pertinent questions then, is drug addiction 'behaviour' or 'disability'?

Posters are absolutely correct in pointing out alchoholism etc, however clearly that has indeed fallen into a 'behaviour' category, i.e. when it interferes with work, youre out. If it doesnt, its accepted. The same can be said for those using drugs. If youre fully employed and its not interfering with your work, its accepted.

Should employers do more? Should employment law be changed, that where a long term employee has then found themselves in this situation where the ability to work is impacted, there should be a one off corporately paid rehab scenario offered before automatic sackings kick in?

At the far end, which is where Mrs TP comes from, even if we agreed that significant addiction which results in incapacity to work or function etc falls into a 'disability' category, what do we do with those that refuse intervention?

OP posts:
ibbleobbleblackbubble · 02/09/2017 10:26

If you want to test people or take substances from tax recipients, start with the publicly funded bar at the House of Commons. Test the BBC stars for coke. Any people earning less than about 35K (who are net recipients of taxation 'benefits' in the UK) you all get tested too. You're 'taking' from us tax payers. You don't get to use the Courts, hospitals, schools or anything else 'our' money pays for until you stop using alcohol and drugs. And poppy-seed bagels, some cough medicine and all sorts of other things. You'll cope
✅✅✅
Exactly!
everyone in society benefits from the collective efforts of society, there are no self made people .....no one is an island

ibbleobbleblackbubble · 02/09/2017 10:42

The desire for intoxication.... for mind altering substances this is part of the human condition
sure it has a downside there may always be people who fall down that dark hole, I'm not saying these people are blameless but we should still look for better solutions to this problem better ways of managing and supporting the people who fall through the cracks

Just because we don't currently have a good ways of dealing with this problem doesn't mean we won't come up with better ways in the future....a deeper understanding of what actually the problem consists of

ibbleobbleblackbubble · 02/09/2017 10:44

Prohibition is not the answer it causes far more problems than it solves

MrsBendyBaker · 02/09/2017 11:07

It won't work. As someone who has historically worked with addicts, they will just find other ways - selling the prepaid cards for less than face value to get cash for drugs being the most obvious example that springs to mind.

I also don't think all benefits claimants should automatically be feared to be addicts! That said, I have no problem with compulsory testing for known addicts as part of state run programmes to get them clean. Most benefits claimants are NOT addicts though.

The poster above who referred to a relative who was an addict I think also raises a valid point. A friend of a friend constantly gets bled dry by his junkie ex who is the mother of his child. Despite the fact that he has sat down before with her when trying to help her budget better, and discovered that once you add up all her benefits plus the maintenance she gets from him and her other kid's Dad, and factor in the fact that she getsHB so pays no rent, she actually has a higher disposable income than he does, she constantly rings him up pleading poverty and wanting to borrow more money (inevitably never returned). He knows it's for drugs, but because she's got his kid she's got him over a barrel and he can't say no when she rings up and says she can't afford to put any money on the electricity meter and the house is cold, etc. The one good thing that would come out of the Aussie system would be it would make it easier for people like him to say no. If you've already been given a prepaid card that has enough on to get your groceries, or a prepaid card that pays your utilities, then the way she seeks to manipulate him would be much harder,as he'd be able to say no, your electricity/gas is covered already by your card. So for relatives of addicts, this could help them by making it harder for addicts to manipulate them. I'm not sure that's a strong enough reason to justify the entire scheme though, given that most benefits claimants are NOT addicts.

ilovesooty · 02/09/2017 11:15

Perhaps the OP would like to consider that under Universal Credit people in work would be tested under this regime she endorses.

StrangeLookingParasite · 02/09/2017 12:11

there were people coming in who'd been injected with heroin by their own parents who wanted to keep them quiet.

That might be one of the worst things I have ever read.

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