AIBU to think these boys are actually being pretty well parented?

[MargaretTwatyer]

Daily Mail link (standard apology)

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4837822/Gypsy-twins-men-just-11-years-old.html

Apart from these boys being pictured next to (sealed) red bull and champagne I can't really see the problem. They attend school, they work part time with their Grandad in the holidays. They exercise in a martial way to learn to defend themselves (like every middle class kid who does karate or judo). They hunt (like the royal family). They have learnt to drive on their own private property (like the Queen). They cook. Their sisters are in education and doing well.

Thought it was a little interesting as there are a lot of negative threads about travelers on here.

I agree.

Other than classing cage fighting as a martial art, on the face of it yes seems ok.

I think it sounds fine but there are people on here who think they should still be wiping their NT, able bodied child's bum and tying their laces at 11 so lots will think this is some sort of child abuse.

At least they're out in the fresh air doing something physical and not glued to an xbox.

Umm apart from the boxing from 5 years old and the cage fighting uncle being there hero and this comment ‘We don’t wanna fight but it’s important that we know how to do it so we know how to defend ourselves Yes becuase violence is the answer isn't it?

They're well-schooled. Their sister is critical, but what sister isn't? They work, they are taught a sport, they learn to drive (and will pass their test before they can drive alone on our roads).

Fine by me.

If travellers had places they could legally go, there would be no problems with them. There are so many unused, undeveloped pieces of land. Why can't we let them use them? They have the right to live as they have done for however many generations, but we don't let them.

I mean it's sealed unopened Aldi beer but its a set up shot of them "surrounded by luxury" in their caravan, I highly doubt they routinely have cans of beer in there. I have a pic of my dd at 5 holding a bottle of corona at a family meal making a "shocked" face, it's not like she was drinking it so if I disapprove of the pics in the article I'm a big hypocrite!

Apart from the boxing/cage fighting, I think that these boys are going to have some amazing memories of this summer.

Cage fighting I wouldn't encourage but boxing can be a great sport for young boys and girls.

But they're not cage fighting. They're 'training' for it. Which in other words is taking part in fitness training. Middle class kids who do Judo or karate are training for self defence in the same way no? Anyway, glad a lot of people agree.

Those cans aren't red bull, they are lager. but yes, it does look like a pretty good life.

They may well only be "training" for cage fighting, but lets not call it a martial art, that would be incorrect.

Middle class kids who do Judo or karate are training for self defence in the same way no?

Actually no. martial arts have a code of conduct, regulations and trainers that have passed some sort of authentication or certification. cage fighting does not.

If travellers had places they could legally go, there would be no problems with them. There are so many unused, undeveloped pieces of land. Why can't we let them use them? They have the right to live as they have done for however many generations, but we don't let them. -

They've often even been turfed off land they've paid for too.
I'm often saddened at the vitriol spouted about travellers and the Romany community on Mumsnet. They have long been one of the most persecuted groups, many of them were murdered during the holocaust, I know some were hung in Scotland and Britain send them to the Caribbean as slaves.

One the one hand they're romanticised and on the other they're vilified.

That's right, bluekite, let's give them a piece of land for nothing when everyone else has to work hard and save to buy a home for themselves- while paying taxes as well, of course. Perhaps you have a plot of land next to your place you could offer them for nothing so that other people won't have the nuisance when they move on and leave a tip behind them, as is often reported in the press.

" Umm apart from the boxing from 5 years old and the cage fighting uncle being there hero and this comment ‘We don’t wanna fight but it’s important that we know how to do it so we know how to defend ourselves Yes becuase violence is the answer isn't it?"

Well, yes, it is when you need to defend yourself against a violent attack, which is what the guy is presumably on about.

let's give them a piece of land for nothing when everyone else has to work hard and save to buy a home for themselves

Never heard of social housing? Councils up and down the country provide affordable rental properties for people. Why should travellers be any different? They should be entitled to rent land off the council.

Btw I hate that these kids are being called little men. They aren't. They're children having a blast of a summer.

also "as is reported in the press" - what 'press' are you looking at? Newsflash: the Daily Mail is horrible racist bullshit. Don't believe the fucking "press". Anything good is ignored while the bad eggs get all the publicity. The "press" is bullshit.

And apart from smashing things and aiming at peoples windows.. sounds greats.

Depends what they're smashing. (Windows =bad obviously!) if it's old crockery or beer bottles then I don't see a problem. I did the same myself as a child. Dad showed us how to make catapults and we would line bottles or cans (or anything we could find really) up on a wall and spend hours perfecting our aim.

YANBU.
quizqueen
First and foremost of course the worst is often reported in the press.
How much of a good story is "travellers stay peacefully on land for a few weeks, then clear up the site and move on" ?
Permits and rent aren't free either. Just saying.
What makes you think travellers don't pay tax? Most of the travellers I know have a trade that's moveable (Ie, decorating, they just buy their supplies as needed for each job) and pay taxes as self employed.
What a huge generalisation to presume they don't pay taxes!

I also think that travellers living illegally on land (even unused council land) is down to the stupid rules by the council required to obtain a legal permit to stay there.
You must have, for example, a local connection. So your partner or majority of your family live there. You must have steady work there. Does no one see how this is an issue for a traveller who's entire family travels? Wait times for a permit can be anything from 2 weeks to basically never.
The only way you have any chance is if your family are settlers and even then wait times are often longer than the length of time you intend to stay on the land. So tbf I'd save the cost and hassle; rejection and appeals too and just stay. By the time anyone actually notices and tries to move you you're probably leaving or already gone.

People think that traveller sites just allow anyone with a caravan on, its not true.
It's getting harder and harder to be a traveller now.

I actually like the traveller way of life. Minus being called a dirty pikey, spat at, being insulted, having your site broken into, being attacked, being discriminated against by almost everyone, having independent shops refuse to sell you basic items like eggs or milk and telling you to fuck off to tesco

your child being refused places at local events because "we're full up" then 16 more people you know being admitted....

local kids refusing to play with your child because their parents have told them not to. They are kids, they don't know hatred or discrimination so ffs don't teach it
It wouldn't be ok if you replaced the word traveller with Muslim, Pakistani, black or polish....

I wonder if they got planning permission to live in the caravan and convert the barn themselves.

let's give them a piece of land for nothing when everyone else has to work hard and save to buy a home for themselves

These lad's families own their land outright.

Cage fighting is mixed martial arts.