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Original poster

to think this is a great way of getting top A-Level success rates - I can't believe other schools haven't cottoned on

417 replies

orlantina · 29/08/2017 19:17

Simply don't let the pupils in Y12 who aren't going to get As not do year 13.

Then you are looking good for a high success rate and can market yourself as a great school.

www.theguardian.com/education/2017/aug/29/grammar-school-unlawfully-threw-out-students-who-failed-to-get-top-grades

Unbelievable the school did this...

OP posts:
Original poster
orlantina · 29/08/2017 21:48

Retention data should really be shown for each subject. Otherwise the reality of what's happening can be masked.

20 pupils were started A-level Maths

5 did A-Level Maths. But they all got A.

So we have a 100% A rate at A-level Maths - you should really do A-level maths here.....

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Original poster
orlantina · 29/08/2017 21:50

No wonder some schools get amazing results

So do you really get the education you pay for? Or is it just cherry picking?

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1DAD2KIDS · 29/08/2017 21:51

It was my understanding schools got funding per student for six form. If I am correct I don't think many schools would want to reduce the number of students for any reason.

Copperbeech33 · 29/08/2017 21:55

Its completely normal, and it doesn't improve the schools A level results, as their success rate is the fraction of those who start in year 12 who do well in year 13.

Its is normal and reasonable to have an entry requirement to year 13. Otherwise vast amounts of time, money and resources wasted. Students who are a bit border line are accepted onto A level courses and given a chance, some rise to the challenge, some don't. Those that don't are not taken through, why would they be?

There is an alternative, if you prefer, just don't accept anyone in year 12 who isn't 100% definitely going to do well in year 13.

Of course that would exclude everybody who blooms late, or who has learnt the hard way in GCSEs, and determined to turn over a new leaf, or anyone ill, or in difficult circumstances, but hey, if we have to all cover our backs from these so called accusations of not acting legally, than fine, lets just dump thousands of teens down the kazi without a second chance, so we will all be safe

FanDabbyFloozy · 29/08/2017 21:57

QE Boys is generally accepted to be the #1 state school in the country. It also has 30 or 40 odd fewer places at A-levels than GCSEs.

It picks who "passes" into the 6th form using an internally set exam, not even A*/A at A-Level. Apparently they strongly suggest the subjects the student should take..

It's exceptionally competitive at 11+ because no-one seems to think that their son should be in the group not selected to do A levels.

FanDabbyFloozy · 29/08/2017 21:58

^^ my point is that many top schools are doing exactly the same..

Original poster
orlantina · 29/08/2017 21:58

Its is normal and reasonable to have an entry requirement to year 13

What would you say is a reasonable grade expectation to get into Y13?

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Copperbeech33 · 29/08/2017 21:59

Retention data should really be shown for each subject it is shown for each subject. it is available for each subject, even if not shown, it is recorded and used in all calculations for each subject, it is entirely up to schools who they allow back in to year 13. Students are not asked to leave without good reason.

you can retake in another school. Any one school can accept very few of their own students back for retakes, because they won't get funded. If it is in the students best interest to retake year 12, if is normally done in a different school.

You don't seem to understand how this whole thing works at all Orlantina

VelvetSpoon · 29/08/2017 22:00

But is a C or D failing? OK it won't get you into a medicine or law degree probably but shouldn't education be about a range of results? If only the people who are going to get As and Bs do A2s, doesn't it make the grades a bit meaningless?

Original poster
orlantina · 29/08/2017 22:03

You don't seem to understand how this whole thing works at all Orlantina

I've just been looking at the performance tables and can't find retention details.

And

Its is normal and reasonable to have an entry requirement to year 13

So - what requirement do you think is a reasonable target to get in Y13?

B? A? C?

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Original poster
orlantina · 29/08/2017 22:04

you can retake in another school

If that school decides to take you...

OP posts:
Original poster
orlantina · 29/08/2017 22:05

you can retake in another school

And if you have easy access to another school or college.

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Copperbeech33 · 29/08/2017 22:05

What would you say is a reasonable grade expectation to get int Y13?

it isn't as simple as that, depends on many things, maths and English grades, for example, attendance, puncutality etc, and it varies from school to school, from subject to subject, and between teachers. Teachers careers can depend on their outcomes, so if you care about that, you set the bar higher than if you don't.

In my DCs school 4 Cs at AS level. In my DDs school BBCC. In my school you have to get a D in every subject you are continuing with, but if you don't get two Ds then you retake year 12 somewhere else. If you do get DD you continue with those subjects and swap the subjects you got less in.

But we take in students who have been turned away from other schools with Cs, or even Bs.

MaisyPops · 29/08/2017 22:07

I can't help think thay between getting rid of students who might alter the numbers they want and being able to sit easier exams than state schools (hello igcse English which has coursework and is still open book) that they aren't actually that good schools at all.
They're schools people pay for if they think their child will be on the 'right side' of the cull and then the chosen few are intensively worked with to ensure theu get the right grades for the school and can have a shiny photo of them going to Oxbridge (and in turn are more likely to hold powerful positions and dominate certain industries).
Makes you wonder how these 'chosen few' would manage in a great state comprehensive with a level playing field.

Original poster
orlantina · 29/08/2017 22:07

In my school you have to get a D in every subject you are continuing with, but if you don't get two Ds then you retake year 12 somewhere else

So - what do you think about the school in the op?

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notanotherNC · 29/08/2017 22:07

I went to a grammar school and this happened to me. I wasn't allowed to continue A-level Physics. I had to take my A-levels at the local college. I have a PhD in Astrophysics now though, so the jokes on them :-)

IdaDown · 29/08/2017 22:07

Orlantina
I think mostly cherry picking.

You have bright / tutored kids, heavily invested parents, pick of the bunch teaching staff and survivor bias. An effective combination - if that's the (academic) route you're going down.

Copperbeech33 · 29/08/2017 22:09

I've just been looking at the performance tables and can't find retention details.

so ask for them, honestly, schools are absolutely drowning in statistics, they don't publish them all, and the govt/ ofsted decides which are the relevant ones to use in tables, although they are often meaningless.

its called the success rates.

The school you are referring to probably has the best success rates in their county, they are super selective and highly elite.

Haskell · 29/08/2017 22:12

The retention thing is new. Not sure if the first time it's in will be next January. (I think this year was just shadow data for schools' internal use, but happy to be corrected).

Original poster
orlantina · 29/08/2017 22:12

and the govt/ ofsted decides which are the relevant ones to use in tables, although they are often meaningless

Which means people should be aware - people don't know to ask for this kind of statistics - and it seems that this has caught out a lot of pupils and parents who didn't realise that this school was so selective after y12.

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Copperbeech33 · 29/08/2017 22:13

You have bright / tutored kids, heavily invested parents,

not really, the ids I am thinking of there are not tutored, and have totally disinterested parents, one in prison, one in a permanent alcoholic stupor.

very bright though, and the school is tough, and lots of kids from very unstable and unsupportive back grounds do brilliantly, because they ARE bright, and the ARE pushed, and there is no namby pambying, or pandering to precious snowflakes , and feeling sorry for your self because of you "disadvantages" is certainly not entertained.

VelvetSpoon · 29/08/2017 22:13

In our area, even the non selective 6th forms won't let you continue in a subject to y13/ A2 unless you get C or above.

So if like my DS you get a D in one subject you have to drop it. If you get a D in more than one you're out. And as all the non selective have this rule (and the selective are even more demanding) a child getting 2 Ds at thd end of y12 would find themselves without any options pretty quickly.

Haskell · 29/08/2017 22:14

And Maisy, progress is also part of 16-19 performance tables now (maybe from Jan?) so similar to GCSE, you can see how much pupils at A level progress from end of KS4 to end of KS5.

Copperbeech33 · 29/08/2017 22:14

The retention thing is new. Not sure if the first time it's in will be next January. (I think this year was just shadow data for schools' internal use, but happy to be corrected).

no, its been around a good ten years universally, and a lot longer in some areas.

Copperbeech33 · 29/08/2017 22:15

like I said, the statistics you are asking for is the success rate