to think this was too rough and not 'completely fine'

[mikado1]

Ds needs thrice daily nosedrops at the mo, this is after a week of eaedrops plus oral antibiotics. He's fed up of it and I can understand that. Likewise dh and I also fed up of the cajoling and persuading. Cue this morning, ds lying on my bed chatting, dh comes in, picks him up from behind 'right nose drops' and goes to take him away. Ssh starts shouting and trying to get out of his arms, saying he wants me to do it. Dh continues out to his room and closes door. I hear him say 'This can be very easy' and 'I'm not in the mood for this', so I open door and he's holding a crying ds (5) down to get the drops in. Ds kicks out and gets roared at. I told him I would do it and he left the room. I am really disgusted by this. He says I'm making a big deal that he's become a pain about the drops and we have to hold him down. In my head I was thinking if he wont lie down, it'll be nose drops before telly/playing etc.

Dh has this aggression sometimes and I find myself questioning if I'm being oversemsituve.

You're being oversensitive. You shouldn't need to negotiate and cajole every day for two weeks. After the first few days, it's clear if your DC is going to happily co-operate or if you are better getting it over quickly.
As a DC I was in hospital after a serious accident. I hated the medicine. The nurses didn't faff about cajoling. They held me down and held my nose. I was shocked but it also made me realise medicine wasn't a negotiable.

bertrand I had a prescription for nose drops when I had a recurring synus infection.

sinus not synus

Reading all replies.

Just a few things, cajoling only started in last few dats as he's fed up of it going on. Also I don't see my way as 'bargaining', more being a bit wily-'oh you want to turn on the tv, lie down and I'll put yiur drops in first'. I used 'violate' as a pp had said some would view it like this. And yes to holding down with praise if it's necessary but an angry man in your face holding you down is very different. Fwiw I would have been more supportive if I'd had a heads up on the plan but I was left a bit open mouthed instead.

I have some sympathy with you and some with your DH.

When they need to have medicine, they need to have it - and if they won't take it willingly then they have to be coerced. If they kick and thrash around and try to bat the medicine away, then they HAVE to be held down.

My DH can't do it. When DS1 was only 2, he was quite unwell with an adenovirus that was affecting his central/abdominal lymph glands, so he was in quite a lot of pain and had a temperature. He normally would take painkillers with no problem, but not while he had this - but if he didn't take them, his pain and temp both got worse. So I tried hiding them in fizzy drink, which he was only rarely allowed under normal circs - didn't work. Tried persuasion (he's 2, remember), tried stern talking, tried all of that - didn't work. Had to hold him tight and force it into his mouth then hold his mouth closed so he'd swallow it - DH "couldn't help, he couldn't stand it" - left to him, the poor kid wouldn't have had any medicine at all because he'd never have managed to give it to him.

But if your DH was really too rough, then that's not nice and that's where my sympathy with you comes in - it's never nice to see your child being roughly handled by someone else.
However, if you're just being too soft then please try not to undermine your DH next time.

When DD2 was just 6 she had surgery on her eye and needed drops every 4 hours for 4 weeks. She hated them and by day 3 of the kicking, screaming and biting I'd had enough. It used to take 3 people to pin her down so we could get 2 drops into her eye.

I lost my temper big time and screamed at her. Not my proudest moment by any means but she stopped messing about after that.

She nearly 17 now and still talks about it - only she remembers it as her being silly and messing about rather than me losing my temper and scaring her. She will openly admit that she was a pain with her drops and she shouldn't have been so silly. I still feel awful about it but there was no other way. The drops weren't optional and she wasn't cooperating.

YABU to undermine your DH's attempt to get the medicine done with quickly in front of your DS

YANBU to want your DH to discuss his plan with you first.

When I was little I spent a lot of time in hospital and whilst the nurses were always nice, they were very firm and efficient about medication being taken as they didn't have all day to try and get just one child to take their medication. They would have no issue holding or pinning you down if necessary, especially if it was eye/ear drops which needed you to be as still as possible to allow the medication to actually be given a few seconds to work.

When I was at home my mum would always try to bribe/cajole me into taking my medication and so I would use it to my advantage and play up like crazy and 9 times out of 10 it would end up with her upset and me in epic meltdown. When it was my dad in charge he would give me one chance to "take it nicely" and then he would just either pin me down to give me the medicine or bear hug me so someone else could administer it.

Ridiculous overreaction! Your DH was just getting the job done, he didn't violate your son! Medicine is not something you bargain with kids to take like you said you do,it is vital they take it so if they fuck about or whinge, you do what your DH did.

mikado1

I know that I will get told off for this but if you don't like the way that your DH is doing this then take full responsibility for it yourself.

My preferred way would be to do it together.

I think your dh was way too rough. I agree that sometimes you have to be firm to administer medication but he went out of his way to upset your son. Lifting him from behind, roaring at him, all unnecessary.

I think that what your DS has learned today is that by making a godawful fuss, he gets what he wants (you doing it)

Is that really the outcome you wanted?

I would have had a word after if I felt that DH was too rough.

I have 2 kids. One can generally be reasoned with, from a young age - he'd had a drip put in, he'd taken antibiotics etc. because I'd tell him it'll hurt/taste bad, but it'll be quick, and it'll make him better and he'd do it. The other cannot be reasoned with. There's just no point even really explaining (I do, just in the hope, and because it doesn't feel right to spring stuff on him, but it doesn't make a difference) - for medicine, vaccinations etc. he has to be pinned, kicking and screaming and have it done to him.

Only you know which type of kid you have OP.

I don't think your husband "violated" your son. His way wasn't your way, perhaps not my way, but sometimes you do have to hold a child down to administer medication.

I think you undermined your husband.

You also taught your son that you would do this.

You also put you husband in his place, that being if he makes a decision about his child and you chose to override it, then you will.

I think what you did was potentially 'worse' than what your husband did so, yes, YABU.

why didn't YOU administer the drops seeing as ds was right next to you?
why does he need taking to a separate room?

The problem with "if you want to watch TV we need to do your medicines first" type approach is what happens when they say "ok then I won't watch tv"? Even that gives them too much control over something which can't be negotiable.

I've had to do similar to get oral antibiotics into a small child. If I started with the nice approach it basically gave them the tip off that it was medicine time again and made the whole thing into a drawn out stand off. Quick whoosh in, medicine down, all done was far less stressful for everyone overall, even if it didn't feel particularly good at the time

Oh I'm forever pinning DD down.
We were doing her dressing 2 days ago there was a. It's holding arms down, one holding head down and me holding legs down whilst surgeon was basically on top of her !
She is like a hulk but it was important to get the dressing done.

If I'd had a minute I would have heebie and could have helped boneyback, it was like dh was annoyed before it even started. He came running up now (2nd dose) saying he wasn't ready and I've very firmly told him there's no option, drops must go in. I see what you're saying 're fuss=preferred result but I suppose I feel dh should be the adult and stay calm so the result doesn't happen.

I agree with the majority.
Ridiculous to say 'violated'.
Your dh was getting on with what had to be done and fed up with the cajoling and persuading. Yes, potentially your dh could have done it a bit differently, but none of us are ever perfect parents 100% of the time - sometimes things just have to be done.
You have massively undermined him now and given your ds a way to play you off against each other

I couldn't be bothered with cajoling and persuading and time wasting. your DH had the right idea IMHO. The teddy idea is a good one but if it doesn't work then force is needs must.

I can understand the need for holding down on occasions like medicine, but I do think that it needs to be done with calmness and gentle but firm assertiveness not anger otherwise it can do lasting damage.

If yout think of a way a vet might restrain an animal - who clearly can't be reasoned with - it can be firm restraint but should be far from angry.

Perhaps not as a one off but if repeated, yes it can leave a mark.

Children can understand/ tolerate a sudden and rare loss of temper in an otherwise safe adult, but someone whose fairly frequent approach is to be angry and overpowering almost before the situation occurs, is a problem as it can be anticipated and that creates an underlying fear.

Then you get the anger-fear-anger cycle if you aren't careful.

mikado it seems you are concerned that this isn't just a one-off loss of temper (and you would know better then MN) but more of him thinking this is a normal way to deal with situations like this and so I do think it needs taking about.

-posted with your update Mikado. I agree with you.

I think of it in a similar way to worming a cat. Generally cats don't like it and so need to be wrapped in a towel so you can pop it in their mouth. Or a dog who doesn't like its claws clipped.

If you try to start the operation when angry and worked up the cat/ dog will feel it and fight to be caught and fight to be wrapped and it all gets very unpleasant.

The adults do need to stay calm and approach the situation with calm as much as possible.

I don't think the perspective of considering it a violation is unreasonable. If an adult were held down against their will, to have something forcibly done to their body that they hadn't consented to, overpowered by another person's physical strength and intimidated by their anger...that would be considered a violation.

I'm not saying it's never justified. I have a child whow requires daily injections and sometimes has to be forced. But it isn't ideal.

I don't think dh was unreasonable either though, it's just a different approach. He might consider the short physical force less traumatic all round than an ongoing battle and distress and dreading it and witholding privileges like TV. That's a valid argument too.

I'm surprised at the hard time you are getting op. Pinning him down should have been an absolute last resort. It is foolish to do it in the circumstances you describe if there is another route.

I say this as someone who has to sometimes do this for my 7 year old disabled son. It's fucking horrible for him, we invariably get hurt in the process and he is already too strong for it to be a one person job. I would give everything I own for my son to have the ability to understand that sometimes he needs medicine and all the time in the world to sit and cajole him to take it.

I think you should administer meds in the future - your dh isn't patient enough. Yanbu.

I agree medicine must be given but I don't like the way your DH did it at all.

When I was 3yo I was rushed to hospital with pneumonia. Dm says that she wasn't sure we'd make the hospital in time. (40 minutes away).

When I got there they wanted to start me on antibiotics. I have a very clear memory of sitting on the bed with my lips closed and shaking my head vigorously so I wouldn't take it. After a couple of minutes of full explanations and promises if I took it, they turned me over and injected it.
I remember just feeling that this was rather cheating, but actually quite relieved that it had happened, because I knew I was going to object all the way, while at the same time knowing that it had to be taken. That way I hadn't given in, but it had still happened fairly quickly.

I felt much more indignant when dm came to visit me the next day and asked if I'd taken my medicine, and when I said I had, checked my leg to see if I'd had to have any more by injection.