That boomers should should avoid criticising younger people when..

[TeaCake5]

They are the "the worst users of drink and drugs"

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/23/wednesday-briefing-baby-boomers-worst-drinkers-and-drug-users

I guess they can afford to with housing not being a problem for them - people in their 20s and 30s have no spare money for drink and drugs!

Eventually all the Boomers in their big expensive houses will die. And what will happen then? Won't there be a glut of property?

The Tories would rather most of the UK was sold to rich Chinese and Middle Eastern folk for a quick buck than make sure the people that live here and pay tax are properly housed. They will most likely create some new hair-brained "help to" scheme for first time buyers to keep property extortionately expensive so that the boomers can stay in the lifestyle they have become accustomed to.

Perhaps "help to rent" where young people can borrow the money to pay the rent for the fourth home of a rich boomer landlord, at a "low" interest rate of 6% in much the same way that young people are being forced to pay for the privilege of a university education (that their boomer parents most likely got for free).

The idea that millennials aren't working from 16 must be a class thing, because everyone I know worked part-time from 16 or younger, throughout sixth form and uni too

I believe you are willfully misunderstanding the point, or missing the first part of that back and forth.

A poster said that the reason millennials earn less than Gen x is because Gen x left education and entered work full time at 15 or 16 and so had had longer to climb the career ladder by early twenties than if you only get a job at 21 after uni.

Working part time in a shop throughout uni isn't the same as leaving education at 15 and getting down the coal mine.

I think people need to stop hoping for/Expecting government help. The existing social system of NHS and pensions won't exist by the time I retire. I have decided it up to me to fend for myself.

@Kursk Good, personal responsibility is good. I shall also be ok (I think/hope) - I am a high earner, with a house and I pay into my pension quite a bit. Long term care plans might be a bit shaky as I don't intend to have children however I'm broadly of the opinion suicide wouldn't be a bad option in many cases after seeing relatives go though living out their days with dementia. Tricky to know when to do it tho.

For most people who don't own their own home it will be very difficult to earn enough to get a big enough pension to keep paying rent once they retire. And without equity in a home, how will people pay for care home fees? I think we will see a return to 'work house' style institutions.

I live in a boomer+ road. Nearly every house was occupied by a retired couple/widow. Fancy cars, many cruises, etc etc. Recently quite a few houses have come up for sale, and I notice that the traditional sort of middle-class people (ie exact replacements of those leaving) are not moving in, but either self-employed types (stereotypical loads o' money) or professional Indian families who do multi-generational living (which is eminently sensible for childcare/all the bills!). Just observing this leads me to suppose that the post-boomers who are teachers/accountants/doctors are not achieving the same lifestyles as their parents. (Disclaimer: our house is an infill so not in the same league as the other houses in the road!)

Yes part time work from school is not the same as full time work from 15 or 16. I am mid 50s and most people I know left school at this age and started work full time. They often worked crappy jobs at 15 or 16, then worked their way up. Remember because degrees were fairly rare then, you could work your way up into jobs that now need a degree. So friend started work in a bank, lowest rank, and by 22 had had several promotions.

That is why comparing what people earned when they were young now, and 40 or 50 years ago, is not comparable, because work patterns were so different then. And standard hours were longer.

Teachers, accountants and Drs are not paid as much as they were 50 years ago. This is something else people don't seem to get. To get those jobs you needed a degree years ago. Few people had degrees. So those jobs had much higher status and pay than they do now. You can't compare jobs in the past to current jobs.

So in the past being a bank manager was a big deal and well paid. Now decisions are all with Head Office and credit scoring, and the job is much much less well paid.

It's all very well saying people should fend for themselves but how do you expect a couple both on minimum wage to pay today's rents and also provide for when they are old?
Should only people with money have a decent home or be able to have children?
If everyone climbs ladders and earns a decent wage who do you expect to do low paid jobs?
In the future with no nhs we will have people unable to afford healthcare.
The myth that those who don't have, don't work hard enough is bollocks. Some of the hardest working people earn the least.
Those born into poverty have to put in a lot more effort to get anywhere near achieving what the better off can achieve. It's a bit like women have always had to work twice as hard as a man to achieve the same position. Many of us kicked up a fuss about that...so we should be kicking up a fuss about equal opportunities for all children.
Every child born deserves the same opportunities and we should all be happy to contribute towards that.
When I was young, personal responsibility meant working and paying your taxes and national insurance. Today you are expected to do that plus put more aside for your old age to take the strain from the country. That's bloody great if you have enough to put into private pensions.
I am sick of those that have blaming those who have nothing.

Ah, the bank manager. No Captain Mainwarings nowadays. In my bank they wear t-shirts .

Also we have yet to mention how many jobs were quite cushy and for life. Fil was a telephone engineer. He rushed round his jobs and finished every day by lunchtime. I was talking to a telephone engineer recently (dog made friends with him as man was poking in wires in one of those cupboards in the street) and he said that they were now tracked and there was absolutely no possibility of sloping off home early.

From here in the Gen X middle I just wish the media would give up on this divisive crap.

Yes that's what I mean, A vast amount of people will probably be renting for ever, unable to retire and unable to afford healthcare.

If you don't have a plan in place or can't afford to save I expect that a lot of people will work until they die.

Mother I don't believe that we should be expecting our young people to fund this themselves Nor do I, so we funded it for him! I don't think it's for the government to fund him when we can do it...and it sort of pays back the RN funding 6 years at BSB.

I believe you are willfully misunderstanding the point, or missing the first part of that back and forth

Missing the first part, sorry

Eventually all the Boomers in their big expensive houses will die. And what will happen then? Won't there be a glut of property?

Nope. Unless something radical happens, most property will be owned by corporations effectively operating as a cartel to charge huge rents. Apart from some luxury housing used as investments.

What's a Mickey Mouse Course? Media Studies? When we live in a time of massive growth of digital media?

Is s Mickey Mouse course one which isn't a traditional subject? Is Games design one? When this is another massive growth area.

I think 'Mickey Mouse courses' are becoming increasing relevant. Technical and Media are where the growth jobs are.

Will most property be owned by big organisations? In London maybe, but not everywhere.

TheEmoji - I have no problem with vocational-type degrees. I agree that games design would seem a very good option. But I do have a problem with doing, say, English at somewhere like the University of Borsetshire (formerly Borset College). I have witnessed some of these courses and they are not taught at a very high level (certainly not to what I think would generally be regarded as degree level) and the students accepted are not of a very high calibre. I saw someone's English work at such a place and I was, frankly, appalled .

Oh don't whinge. I was born in 1948 and did not plan for some of the good things that came my way - good education, university grants, ease of getting jobs, low house prices relative to now etc. etc. It just happened that way.

BUT........we had to deal with the post war shortages, mortgage rates were sky-high (would you fancy a mortgage rate of 17%?), no washing machine, no dishwasher, no carpet, and now being the first really squeezed generation who are caring for very elderly parents and also caring for grandchildren because we understand that child care is expensive for our children.

Pop over to Gransnet and cop a look at the quantity of free child care we all do, even when we are dealing with our own health problems. And we do it willingly because we care.

I am not having a whinge - I have no complaints at all about the challenges that life has brought; but I am just trying to give a bit of balance. Every generation has its own assets and challenges - we have to take what life gives.

I really do think it is very simplistic to set one generation against another - we are all doing our best with what life has dealt us; and my children (30s and 40s) and their friends are wonderful kind and caring people who appreciate whatever we can do to help them and who live decent lives - I admire them all so much and love their company. They do not think about whinging about other generations, and have enormous respect for those who are older than them.

Further to the point of houses being owned by institutions, that may well become the case as councils will take liens on property for care fees. Also I think equity release will become more of a thing as people seek to supplement their pension by drawing on their house value. Also if Labour get in and there is a land value tax, most people will not be able to pay it out of retirement income, and will therefore will roll it up until sale of house/death, whereupon the council will own the house.

ALittleMop - definitely that.

Ladyincement. Totally agree with what you are saying there. Crap degrees at crap institutions.

There's also a huge asset strip/asset drain going on

There's insufficient social housing, and so taxpayers money is going to top up rent to private landlords. So public money going to private profit

Successive governments have allowed a situation to arise where tax credits are a thing - again, private industry allowed to pay such shit wages that taxpayers money is going to make up the difference. Public money going to private profit.

Then selling off our national industries, our infrastructure and now vast tranches of property - public money draining to private industry.

I have no problem with private industry making money - that creates jobs. But I have a huge issue with private money being gouged from public coffers.

The issue is NOT boomers vs millenials. It's the whole sorry state of society being run for the benefit of a tiny minority rather than for the good of the many

(Gen X, before you ask.)

exactly Anatidae

I bought my house working two jobs (both together was about 20k), paid for uni, didn't have More than a day trip for a holiday or buy more than a payg nokia until I was in my late twenties. I'm a millennial. I'll be frank, lots of people my age don't know how to budget, and don't know how to prioritize their spending.