To want to move up North in my situation?

[Barefootsummers]

We have 2 children and would love a bigger family. We currently live in the south east in our own home which is a small 2/3 bed flat with no garden. Up North we could afford a detached house with small amount of land (550k). Thinking West Yorkshire. I love the countryside and this lifestyle rather than fancy restaurants / boutiques etc. We could work in similar jobs up North. It's a no brainer for me but my DH is not convinced. His reasons against are that the housing market is always secure in the south east, schooling is better and it affords more opportunity. I guess I'm not looking for anyone to tell me what I should or shouldn't do but just need some perspective on this. Anyone? Thanks in advance!

^If you're white European then you'll be fine.

If youre BAME then the SE is better for you^

More bollocks. Again this is a city vs rural comparison not north vs south. Unless you really think that villages in the home counties are more diverse than urban areas of Leeds, Bradford, Huddersfield, Manchester etc etc.

Ifailed Sadly you are correct about public transport. I live in a village between Leeds and Bradford and there is no bus service to Bradford and the service to Leeds is every half hour in the daytime Monday to Saturday and hourly in the evenings and on Sundays/BHs, and very unreliable - would be very inconvenient to use for commuting.

Some areas are better - both DM and MIL live in other areas on the outskirts of Leeds that have a bus service to Leeds every 10 minutes in the daytime and half hourly in the evenings/on Sundays. That's about as good as it gets in Leeds.

AccrualIntentions
I regularly visit Halifax and Leeds. They are only 16 miles apart, yet take 40 minutes to get between by train, presumably pulled by Puffing Billy.
Bus fares are at least twice those in London, and a day pass only works if you stick with one bus company. My friend in Leeds lives about 4 miles from the centre, she tells me it's usually quicker to walk into town than get a bus.
I agree its a lot to do with investment (also Thatcher's privatisation of buses outside of London), but whatever the cause, the effect is the same, more people wedded to their cars sat in traffic jams.

Yes, the lack of investment. They spend much more per head on public transport in London and the south east than northern England.

Instead of focussing efforts into getting more and more people to crowd in and around London, why not spread the jobs and opportunities around a bit more and then people won't feel that they can only get a decent job in London.

Although I note that HS3 is back on the horizon, but lets not hold our breaths shall we?

I agree with nigels comment about London being a mugs game for low and middle earners. The financials just don't stack up at all. From a northern city dweller's point of view, The Daily Mash has it spot on:

www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-entertainment/londoners-reveling-in-all-the-things-they-cant-afford-to-do-this-weekend-2015060598944

As people keep pointing out, it depends on the specific area you live in.
Oldham shocked me when I lived there in the 90s; constant rain, racism, poverty, homophobic, third generation unemployed, slum clearances, drugs and every stereotype...but York is lovely, as is HebdenBridge. Hell, Saddleworth is beautiful and only 5 miles from Oldham. Just like in the South.

why not spread the jobs and opportunities around a bit more and then people won't feel that they can only get a decent job in London.

Oh dear, that sounds all a bit Socialist, and we can't have that, that way lies the path to equality, sharing, meeting needs and compassion. Best leave it to the wonderful Market Forces.

I live in a small town in County Durham. It's a lot more diverse than I thought it would be, it's definitely not all white British people who have lived here for generations. I hear loads of different accents at the supermarket, probably partly because its quite a touristy area but taking to people at playgrounds and play groups a lot of people have moved here from other areas. We also have great public transport to Newcastle and Durham but it is pricey, as expensive as it was in the south east.

If you've lived in London then I would move to Leed/Sheffield.Both have good public transport links,schools.Look at villages on the connecting rail lines.
I have relatives in Ilkley,excellent school,train/bus to central Leeds and the Moors a5min.walk away.
The suburbs of Sheffield and Leeds are also nice and nearer.
They do have gay and ecentric people inthe north too and as mentioned Leeds has a thriving gay community (dd (14)went to her first pride there a few weeks ago.
It's a very friendly place too.
I think after London Hebden might be a bit too much of a culture shock.
Go for holidays in Yorkshire, it's addictive.

Waving to Crowey and the rest of the Hudds Contingent. I grew up in Huddersfield and visit regularly. There is a lot of building going on but there are still beautiful areas within a few minutes drive of town. After a hard time in the 70s and 80s and the end of the traditional industries the area is definitely on the up. I live in an area where all the properties were built in the same era and I miss the diversity of properties in Yorkshire. Great schools too and in easy reach of Leeds and Manchester. I even miss the snow! Go for it OP.

I do love Yorkshire, if I ever move north again, that's where I'd go.

I'm a northern but have lived in London for 35 years. I've just bought a house in the north and am moving back there. Can't wait.

People are mkaing a lot of asssumptions about the North! Even 40 years ago up there I went to school with chidlren from loads of different grou[s - we had two Chinese girls in teh class, then there were some Indians. There have always been loads of ultra orthodox jews in Gateshead (this is Newcastle etc). yes it is not as mixed as my bit of Liondon where my son's Asian friend thought 50% of the Uk was non white (he had rarely left Southall!) but it is certain.y not exclusively white and there are plenty of pay people and always have been. It is just another area where humans live. I would not be put off thinking it is a dreadful racist place. We have relatives near Halifax too and that's certainly not all white.

If I were moving up then for children's opportunities the bigger city centres are better at least for work even if you commute in (and so much for great Londont transport links - it I get the tube from house to London including the walk at either end it is an hour door to door which will be similar to the Halifax relatives and my brother's commute into Leeds) (and as I said above the fee paying grammar school at Leeds (or Manchester Grammar or Newcastle Royal Grammar - all private schools despite the grammar name) are good).

@Ifailed I used to live 3 miles from Leeds city centre and whilst it wasn't quicker to walk over get the bus it was not far off, and much cheaper too.

OP, you mentioned that your not keen on the accent? Are you happy for your kids to adopt it within 3 days of moving op North

@BarbaraofSevillle that daily mash article is perfect!

I see someone has mentioned the shit hole that is Oldham.

Such a shame that a once proud town has been completely ruined.

BudgiesInABlender you have clearly never been to Sheffield, Leeds or Bradford. The white population accounts for less than 50% of the population in Leicester, and by the end of the century, non whites will outnumber white people in Birmingham.

Oh, wait a minute, perhaps these cities will be eaten up by London and just be part of the Greater London conurbation

Don't come to the North it's horrible. Please please stay in the south.

Though if you do come depending on where you go 1/2 a million won't get you as much as you think.

Why is education better down south? I teach in one of the top comprehensives in the Uk.

You have to be white to live up here?
Better tell my Hindu, Muslim, and Jamaican friends to get packing!!
They should probably cancel the annual Chinese New Year celebrations as well

Anyway, people who think we live in a cold barren culture free wasteland with no jobs should probably just stay down South - we don't want you

If you like Hebden Bridge - ish, have a look at Todmorden. It's the next town along, closer to Manchester with a direct train line, you get much more for your money and it's more diverse than HB in a lot of ways. Eg www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-59583692.html

Bingley is lovely in Bradford, and there are some great areas in Shipley/ Saltaire. If you want countryside, then Ilkley/Otley/Skipton are lovely.

I love West Yorkshire. Born and raised here, then moved to London for a few years before coming back home. I liked London, but never really made the most of it there, and once we had kids we decided to move for the housing, quality of life, and to come back towards grandparents. If you can get jobs here I'd definitely give it a go - we're really friendly :-). But I would second (third/fourth?) renting out your house in London and renting up here for a while just in case. Good luck whatever you decide!

Ifailed

I absolutely agree about links between towns / cities in the north - they're shocking. Within the cities, though, it's not all totally bleak. The Tyne and Wear Metro is brilliant (albeit in desperate need of a new fleet which DFT won't pay for because they're too busy spending all their money on crossrail 2). If you're comparing with London of course transport will fall flat. But as a teen in Newcastle, none of us drove or got lifts anywhere, we didn't need to. If we lived in rural Northumberland we would have done. But I imagine that's also the case for teens living in villages in the Home Counties.

Have you never lived in Bolton then Budgies? What a ridiculous generalisation the north is a very large place.

If you're white European then you'll be fine.

If youre BAME then the SE is better for you.

Yeah. You'll definitely find more diversity and less racism in some virtually all white south eastern hamlet than you will in, like, Central Manchester.

Honestly, people are daft sometimes. Compare urban with urban, not urban with rural (and the same is true of the public transport btw: living as I do in Manchester less than a mile from train, tram and busy bus route, I laughed at ifailed's description. That's not to say we don't suffer from underinvestment as a regional whole, we do and that's a huge issue, but that is not an accurate description of the whole of the north, anymore than Cornish bus services are of the south).

I mean, I have family members from Ireland who were treated as curiosities in the more rural south east. Ireland! It would be a cold day in hell before that happened in Liverpool or Manchester. I won't even tell you what some of my black cousins have experienced.

I would say the main thing for people to consider is jobs, closely followed by ability to get back into London if you decide you don't like it. If you're going to live rurally, yes transport, but that's true of most of the non-urban UK. I'd budget for two cars, living where OP wants to.

I've lived in West yorks for the last 14yrs - moved up from the midlands and a spell in London during / post uni. Wouldn't live anywhere else now, its the best combination of things to do, space and scenery. Lived in various spots in NW Leeds, now settled between Bradford and Skipton in an aforementioned town which used to an old building society named after it (which as a kid I thought was the name given to one of the gents in the bowler hats - never knew it was an actual place ).

Picking the right spot for commute, schools and things going on is key, places just a mile or so apart can be so different, which I guess is true of anywhere. Rent and research before deciding where to settle - I literally came up for a few days and drove everywhere to get a feel for the place first. Agree hebden bridge is lovely but I couldn't live in a steep valley having grown up in rolling hill / open space places they feel claustrophobic, which counts quite a few spots out. Also agree with the poster who said they couldn't tolerate living in Harrogate, it's OK for a bit of shopping now and then but I find it a bit soulless (sorry to any Harrogate dwellers).

Having said that the weather is much kinder in the south - always chuckle when I meet colleagues from Devon / SE in London when I think it's warm and they're chilly!

Have you thought about Newcastle? Fab city and beautiful Northumberland on your doorstep. Quick browse and you could get this 6 bed detached for £545k.
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-48724173.html