To not want to go to my inlaws for Christmas?

[NattyBatty]

I'll try not to drip-feed, so sorry about the essay-length post!

I know it's early in the year, but Christmas planning has started because we live 200 miles from family. Mine in London and my inlaws in Scotland. Neither of us drive, so we need to arrange trains, and somewhere to stay etc, so it's a big effort. It's also expensive, so usually we try and stay with a relative.

When DH and I got together we would alternate each year: my family for Christmas, his the next, then mine again the following year. This worked fine for about four years, then the problems with his mother and stepfather stared.

MIL lives across town from us, but all the rest of the family is in Scotland.

MIL remarried when DH was 5yrs old. The man she married is an alcoholic (or alcohol dependant, or whatever the correct term for someone who is not a chemical addict but a psychological one, if that makes a difference). She knew this before they got married, but she did it anyway. We will call him G.

G is not always drunk. This is mainly because he is on his last warning for going to work while drunk or smelling of alcohol. He works in the civil service as part of the court system, so they are very strict. He never has just one drink. If he has one, he won't stop until he falls unconscious. Then he will wake up and carry on drinking until he passes out again. He will get home from work on Friday and drink at least one box of wine. Then he will have the two or three top-up bottles MIL gets for him the next morning. Then he will ransack the house looking for more alcohol once that is gone. The local shops either close before he gets to this point, or have been warned not to serve him after a certain time on Saturday. And on Sunday he's on enforced abstinence so that he has dried out enough to not stink up the office on Monday (or throw-up all over himself at the bus stop on his way in, as he has done several times in the past)

This would be bad enough, but when he is drunk he has mood swings. One minute he will be happily chatting away, the next he will be snarling abuse at you. He is also violent. While DH was growing up he was subject to emotional and mental abuse, along with physical assault. For example at age 8, DH had his head bashed into a cupboard because he called his mum a name 30 minutes earlier during an argument. He's also had his arm "accidentally" broken while "play fight" on two occasions.

MIL is an enabler, and comes out with things like "but he's lovely the rest of the time" and "but he doesn't mean it and he's sorry when he sobers up" and "he'd never do anything to really hurt anyone". She is also emotionally manipulative, lies about the worst possible things (like making up rape and abuse stories about DHs dad - then forgetting and contradicting herself later). She is only occasionally violent (if that makes it any better). She was also neglectful in that she just left DH to it. She didn't make sure her primary school aged child had clean clothes, a balanced diet, went to school (both adults left for work before it started so they just left him to take himself to school). She didn't do anything that parents need to do to take care of their child, and her excuse is "well it was the second marriage for both of us, so we decided to just have fun"

While growing up, DH was taught not to talk about this. He was told that every family had fights, and that it was all perfectly normal, but that it was bad manners to air your dirty laundry in public. So he kept quiet. Until around 6 years ago.

DH and I lived with MIL and G for a while so that we could save for a deposit, and during that time G became physically violent towards me. DH stepped in to protect me, and I called the police (MIL tried to stop me and disconnected the landline so I couldn't dial 999). Needless to say, we moved out within the week. This incident sparked a conversation with some close friends and DH realised that what he'd grown up with was not normal as he had been lead to believe, so he distanced himself from his mother and stepfather. MIL then went to her family (and FILs family) and cried that I was wrecking her relationship with DH. DH responded by telling them everything... and they took her side.

They think DH is exaggerating or that she would never do those things. They say that, even if it did happen, she's family so it shouldn't matter. They certainly don't support me banning MIL and G from seeing DS (4) and think MIL should be allowed to see DS if DH or I are around.

When DS was born we went up to visit the inlaws for Christmas on the understanding that we would not see MIL or G. On Christmas Day, MIL called her mother, who we were staying with, and asked to see SD. Gran asked DH, and made it very clear that she wanted it to happen. MIL then called DH and told him that it would ruin his grans Christmas if he didn't agree. So we were trapped in the house, couldn't get home without help (which no one would provide) and our host was making demands that we didn't want to give in to. In the end we had no choice but to agree, and I hate myself for letting them put us in that position.

There have been a few similar instances since then, and DS knows who his gran is and that we don't see her very often.

To clarify, when DS was born I sent MIL some terms for if she wanted to be part of DSs life. The first one was that she had to leave the abusive drunk. The second was that she had to get psychological help for whichever mental illness she has that makes her think what she has done is in any way ok. She hasn't done either of those things.

DH wants to go to his family this year, because we haven't been back since DSs first Christmas, and I really want to make him happy, but I also don't want to go into MILs territory or deal with her family undermining our decision to protect our son.

We could stay in a hotel, but we would still depend on family for transport, which leaves us at their mercy if they pull that stunt again.

AIBU?

I can never understand adults with families of their own "having to go" to this one or that one at Christmas. You need to do your own Christmas for your own pleasure and for your own child, not travelling around trying to appease everyone. His family are dreadful, and I am that type of person who would struggle to be around people who were in cahoots with people I am NC with. It basically says that by remaining on good terms with them, that they agree with MIL and G, surely? You can't trust someone who would trap you into seeing someone you're NC with. Your husband may need some form of counselling to understand that this is all not okay, rather than you trying to push his mum into "seeking psychological help", she isn't the person you are married to, and she's too far gone, clearly.

YANBU I would have gone NC with MIL and G years ago.

So this man got violent towards you and as you tried to dial 999 the dM disconnected the phone?!? Fuck that - there's no way you can ever fell safe around them again. It would not be a safe environment for yourself or your DS. Also the family tricked you last time you went.
As pp's hsve said you DH should get some counselling.

Regarding the conditions you laid down to MIL, this was never going to happen. It is like telling someone else to lose weight, give up smoking etc. Unless she decides she needs to, she won't do it.

Regarding your husband, I think he is in the mindset of "oh it's 4 years on, memory has made hazy how bad it was 4 years ago, it will be better this time"

Survivors of the type of abuse you are talking about often live in hope that the next time it will be better. So I can see where he is coming from too. (Been there, done that)

Having said all that, I agree with PPs saying have your own Christmas at home and your DH should consider counselling.

This man has history of violence towards you. He has previously thrown a young child into a cupboard, and broken an eight year old's arm. He will be very visibly, alarmingly and possibly violently drunk. The family will manipulate you into exposing your four year old to this.

As a risk assessment for safeguarding a parent doesn't have a leg to stand on for walking into that situation.

Dh needs for realise - and he is dealing with childhood trauma, I have every sympathy for him- that if he takes this risk and his child is hurt, social services will look at this known history and have major concerns that a need to please his abusers comes ahead of his priority to keep his child safe.

If dh wants to see them fair enough. Fgs neither of you take a four year old into that.

Oh and add to that risk assessment that MIL has history for physically preventing calling for help or the police when someone is attacked by her partner.....

Jeez.

I'm sorry to be blunt but I wouldn't take a teenager into that never mind a preschooler.

Christ that sounds fucking awful. I would not go. I would not put any child of mine in the same room as any of those people.

Have Christmas at home, just the three of you. Send your DH off to see them on Boxing Day if he really wants to see them.

Hmmm....how would I phrase my answer to this request??
"HAHAAAAHAAAAAAAAAA .....(in breath) HAAAAAAAAAHAHA.....no"

I wouldn't go, and I agree with pp saying it's now time to have Christmas at home with your DS and not be travelling.

However, I did want to pick up the 'we're dependent on them for transport' bit. Don't see how since London has good public transport and plenty of taxis? If you mean it's expensive, that's another thing and as with hotels you have to plan and budget for this. But as non-drivers you can't just expect other people to transport you, you have to have a plan of your own - then you're not trapped by people like this.

Justvtay home and don't go to either parents - simples

I think this is a very difficult situation.
It is hard to just cut off someones family. Even if you see it as toxic and dysfunctional, and your OH is starting too, there is a lot of familiarity in old connections, and there may even be a part of him that is comfortable, or even misses the camaraderie of his family, chaotic or not. I think if you cut everyone off, you really will be driving a wedge in between you and his family, and its rough to make anyone choose between old family and new.
That said, if you are feeling uncomfortable or intimidated, or there is concerns about safety (and it seems like there really is here), making another plan might be better.
How about you guys skip this year, and use the money saved to get driving lessons, so you are not so isolated next time?
I also agree with the earlier poster - it's never useful giving people ultimatums about their mental health. It suggests you are deeply inexperienced with how mental health works, and why someone might still love someone in spite of their addictions. This inexperience may be making them seem more aggressive than they are.
You can limit contact with an individual (eg. not allowing MIL's partner access), but telling your MIL she cannot see her GC unless she leaves her partner and sees a shrink?
I don't know how you phrased it, but I can't see that going well. You say you 'sent her some terms'. That sounds like you didn't even have a conversation with her, but emailed or texted her.
I'd say there is definitely another side to this story.

Yabu to demand that mil LEAVE her dh! I just wouldn't go and I'd be nc with her. Why do neither of you drive?

buttery i read it that op doesn't live in London. She said she lives 200 miles away from family in London and Scotland so i think she lives somewhere in the middle.

I dont think OP mentioned not driving as being part of the problem but to explain why she has to start planning Xmas this early. Booking trains and hotels and so on.

Transport, driving, all red herrings.

This is about allowing a four year old child into the presence of someone who has on two occasions you know of, assaulted another young child, on one occasion breaking a bone, and has in the last couple of years assaulted the OP.

These people are just as abusing as yourMIL. They have been manipulating you and emotionally blackmailing you. The way I see it you have two options. The first is to go on the strict understanding that you will not have contact with your MIL a Dan agreement that you will not come for Chrismas (maybe ever) again if they pull the same tricks as last time. Alternatively you may Way to invite them to have Christmas with you so that you do not risk finding yourself in the same position as last time.

Bloody hell. No way, stay away, these people are batshit.

i think your dh must still be in FOG.
I guess it still hasn't sunk into his head that these are the people who are basically calling him a liar and enabling his abuser

If you go, you already know something will happen and again you'll be 'stuck' there, will have your parenting undermined and your rules/boundaries trodden over.

I doubt your dh can effectively stand up to the bullying and pressure in front of them, so just like last time you will be forced to 'put up' with them calling the shots

You need to get assertive and put yours and the dc wellbeing first.
In laws don't deserve to be 'rewarded' for their behaviour and attitude

Stay T home. It's lovely. We go nowhere. People welcome to come to me.

have you set up any family traditions of your own now that you have dc?
Personally, i'd spend every second xmas at home and build my own traditions with the dc.

You could host and invite people from both sides?

It means you get to select your own guests and can always chuck them out if they start any aggro

If you really want to make sure you see that side of the family, stay in a centrally located hotel and only meet people at neutral locations that you can get to independently, like a restaurant.

Why does your DH want to go? I think you need to explore that together.

I'd also consider learning how to drive. It's important for freedom and independence.

They've got him well trained - even though they abused him, as a child and as an adult, he still wants to go back.
OP, please protect your child from this. They will pull that stunt again, and do you really want your young child (who will remember now) exposed to this kind of fuckery?
Stay home, and have a peaceful Christmas with your little family. Start new traditions, and enjoy yourself. Use the money you've saved by not travelling to go out for a meal on Xmas day if you like, or buy some pretty decorations for your house - don't let you, or your dc be at the mercy of these people, which is what will happen if you have no escape route.
I'd have gone NC long ago tbh. sorry OP

There are a lot of comments to go through, so I'm sorry if I've missed something.

We live in Yorkshire, so do MIL and G, my family live in London, DHs extended family live in Scotland.

DH doesn't want to cut off his extended family who haven't actively tried to undermine us, The thing is that he also wants to see those who have, despite what they have done. He's on board with cutting MIL and G our of DSs life, although he still sees MIL occasionally to try and encourage her to fix her life.

My ultimatum was that if she wanted to be part of DSs life then these were the requirements. I don't care who is offended by that. I will not risk my son over her shitty decisions.

Someone referred to G as her "DH" rather than "the drunk who abused her DS while he was growing up". I don't care if G knows the cure has the cure for cancer buried in his pickled brain, the important thing is that he is unrepentant violent towards those who are smaller than him. He is a bully and a drunk. That point seems to be missed with your statement of him being MILs DH.

The reason driving (or not, as the case is) is an issue, is because we rely on public transport which doesn't run on Christmas Day or Boxing Day in the Scottish countryside. If we needed to escape then we would be stuck.

I talked to DH about this and he got very upset that I didn't want to see his other family members. I suggest a compromise where we go up for a long weekend the week before Christmas, stay in a hotel, and arrange to meet people on neutral ground (so we can leave if things get out of hand). He agrees that MIL and G are not suitable to be around but he doesn't want to lose the rest of his family over this.

I might suggest to DH that we spend the money we would have used to travel this year to get him his drivers license on the grounds that it will open up escape routes in the future.

As for staying at home, that would be my preference, and my family can and do visit us too, but DHs family have never visited. He doesn't get why that pisses me off, and why it make me more reluctant to spend time and energy going to them.

You won't like it and I'll be shot down by others, but you sound as aggressive and abusive and manipulative as his family. They do say men marry their mothers.

You do what you want and he can take his children to see his family. next year you can do the same. Seems fair.

....... he's very upset that you don't want to see the wider family who supported/manoevered you into having to see the man who assaulted you?

Oh love, you've got a problem there.

Child protection . Worst outcome of this could be being manoevered into exposing your child to seeing you assaulted, or being assaulted himself. Around a woman who will then try to prevent you seeking assistance.

As adults, see who you want, but for pete's sake don't take a four year old child somewhere you might be tricked into exposing him to a violent drunk with a history of battering children. That's social service involvement, right there.