To think that every person above age 10 at least should know that the moon affects the tides?

[HateSummer]

I was working with someone aged in their early 20's recently who had never heard of this and were really shocked. I was really shocked they didnt know.

Isn't this basic science taught in primary school? Along with the moon cycle and seasons?

It should be taught at primary school as I imagine it would be fascinating for a small child.
I am not in the slightest bit highbrow but have been called this multiple times for taking my kid out to art galleries and museums.
By people who are perfectly intelligent and educated on paper.
There is a general culture of not being bright these days.
It used to be cool to say you weren't good at maths until all the mathematicians got super high paid jobs. Hopefully things will change.

Down, sometimes definitions change. When I was at primary school in the 1960s I was definitely taught that there were 5 continents: Europe, Asia, Africa, Australasia and the Americas, so I'm not at all surprised that some people still think that.

Obviously no excuse for thinking that the UK us a continent though!

I do know that some (many) children are constrained by poverty in many ways.

I suppose I am surprised that amongst MN-ers, who are on average as a demographic adequately educated (there are stats on this), and by definition interested enough in the world to engage and chat with people, the threshold is quite....non scientific.

KS2 science

Earth and space

Pupils should be taught to:

describe the movement of the Earth and other planets relative to the sun in the solar system

describe the movement of the moon relative to the Earth

describe the sun, Earth and moon as approximately spherical bodies
use the idea of the Earth’s rotation to explain day and night and the apparent movement of the sun across the sky

KS3 Science

Space physics

gravity force, weight = mass x gravitational field strength (g), on Earth g=10 N/kg, different on other planets and stars;
gravity forces between Earth and Moon, and between Earth and sun (qualitative only)

the seasons and the Earth’s tilt, day length at different times of year, in different hemispheres

Nothing about tides or the moon in geography

Also everyone saying science = geeky is prevalent is wrong.
I'm 22.
STEM is majorly pushed in school, everyone things the world revolves around it.

I wasn't being mischievous .
Once we question what we've been told, we can see other possibilities.
For example, the 'theory' of gravity.

It is on the national curriculum for primary and secondary science so it is taught but as for how much is understood and retained and consolidated throughout a child's education I'm not so sure.

It's something I know as a basic fact but I have just googled and it's quite complicated (well for me.)

fifth Yes i think you're right, the definitions have changed.. I can understand actually when knowledge is just outdated (I still count Pluto as a planet as that's what I was taught but I don't believe it's classed as one anymore?! ) I'm sure more of my general knowledge is outdated than I realise.. unfortunately the women who were in agreement that there are only 5 continents are in their late teens and 20s.. about half a dozen of them. They would not have it when I told them the UK is in Europe - geographically - mainly because 'we're not in the EU anymore'.
I had to google it to prove it.

Ah, yes. OK Verbena...

It's all very well being curious about the world around you, but for a lot of people, the sea is not part of the world around them. We live within 20 miles of the coast and go to the beach regularly. My KS2 kids know about tides because they've watched them go in and out. We've had all the "why, why, why?" questions. A child with a different life experience may not have had that opportunity, it's just not part of their world.

This is the sort of counter-intuitive factual knowledge that can be difficult to remember without self-testing and practice, unless it's something a child is already interested in and already has a good scientific conceptual schema to slot the knowledge into.

Many schools, especially primary schools, aren't into that kind of approach to learning. They put a higher value on self-expression, working in groups and 'learning to learn', as it's called. Personally I think there should be a lot more emphasis on formal learning of knowledge during Years 4-6, but that goes against the historical culture of English primary schools established by the Plowden Report, which decided against such formal learning in 1967.

There are indeed 13 'four-weekly' periods, and 13 cycles of the moon, in a year, but not 13 calendar months. Anyone who thinks there are 13 calendar months in a year, needs to give their head a wobble!

I have to explain this on a regular basis to clients, because most benefits are paid fortnightly or 4 weekly. An awful lot of them can't grasp why 2 fortnightly payments of housing benefit don't add up to a calendar month's rent, or why a monthly direct debit doesn't leave their bank account on the same day as their 4-weekly PIP payment is paid in.

One of the few good things about Universal Credit is that I will never have to explain this again, once everyone is on UC.

I recently had to explain to a young colleague that Catholics are Christians. She thought Catholicism was a different religion entirely.

I was a bit shocked by that.

I still count Pluto as a planet as that's what I was taught but I don't believe it's classed as one anymore?!

I'm a Pluto truther as well - none of that 'dwarf planet' nonsense in our house...

They put a higher value on self-expression, working in groups and 'learning to learn', as it's called

Where have you been?

Haven't you seen the fact filled curriculum?
It's facts, facts, facts...

www.gov.uk/government/collections/national-curriculum#curriculum-by-key-stages

The biggest issue in primary schools is that it's maths and English.

Other subjects lose out to these.

Anyone who is surprised by what people don't know should watch Pointless.

On one question, the number of people who could name the fourth part of this quartet - Spring, Summer, Winter - was NOT 100 out of 100.

My subject is literature, and I always notice that people generally are far more shocked by ignorance of science than ignorance of literature. Somehow, science is regarded as something that should be general knowledge and literature as niche. And this scientific fact about the moon and the tides is not the most obvious one. It would be like me starting a thread in which I was shocked to learn that everyone over the age of 10 had not read A Christmas Carol or Oliver Twist.

Orlatina - the curriculum is a 'framework' document. It lists what children should know, but states quite clearly that this is not and should not be the limit of what they learn at school. It was also introduced quite recently, which is one reason my comment used the word 'historic'.

One of the problems with enquiry-based learning with lots of group work, rather than interactive explicit instruction by the teacher, is that it chews up a lot of time, with the children sometimes learning very little. This is one of the reasons for the crowding out of other subjects by maths and English: less effective methods of instruction require more time.

Another, of course, can be low expectations of behaviour, with the teacher constantly having to waste time getting children to focus. Another is that the huge focus of English on creative writing and story analysis means that opportunities to reinforce learning of knowledge through writing practice can be missed. In addition, a curriculum focused on 'projects' and 'themes' rather than carefully-sequenced acquisition of knowledge means that children are more likely to forget what they've learned because they are less able to develop the schemas my earlier post referred to. And finally, a fundamental mistrust of the concept of 'testing', even when that testing is low-stakes quizzing, has also historically been a part of primary school culture, however much that may be changing now.

It lists what children should know, but states quite clearly that this is not and should not be the limit of what they learn at school

I know. I am a primary teacher.

Orlatina But other people reading this thread may not be, and may never have read the curriculum document.

It would be like me starting a thread in which I was shocked to learn that everyone over the age of 10 had not read A Christmas Carol or Oliver Twist.

Now, see, I've read both. The lunar tides may have clean passed me by but the BBC's 💯 Big Reads has not.

But other people reading this thread may not be, and may never have read the curriculum document

The question that always arises is:

What facts should children be taught?

Is this a fact that children need to know?

I would have thought it was basic knowledge, the moon affects the tides but what's more interesting is what the various creatures in the sea do with each tide.

I can't really remember exactly but do remember it was interesting.

People retain information that they found interesting even if there is no real use for it.
I've found I know lots of weird and non weird facts about lots of animals.

The concept of why the tides are affected by the moon is quite complicated so I'm not surprised that people don't know it. They may have heard that 'the moon affects the tides' but have forgotten it because it was never fully explained to them or they didn't understand it.
I expect there are quite a lot of facts you don't know OP and I hope no-one judges you for it.

STEM is majorly pushed in school, everyone things the world revolves around it.

It was when I was at school too (now 38). The academic children were encouraged to take 2 science subjects. I took two languages, because I wasn't good at science and had no interest in it, but I was very much "swimming against the tide" (har-de-har) in doing so.