To worry about seeing little cyclists on busy roads

[heartstornastray]

It's nice that family's all get to go out cycling and learn how to be responsible on roads but there's no way i'd have a small child cycling behind me on a busy road like i often see. You really can't depend on car drivers seeing the child. Also if something's overtaking on the other side and a car has to pull in the child would be killed. Surely if they must cyvle on busy roads the child would be safer in front.

The other day we passed a man with two children, both cycling behind him and the smallest one (about 6) was wobbling precariously trying to keep up with dad, he could so easily have fallen into the path of a car, and the father wouldn't have even been aware, why put your children at risk.

I don't think cyclists actually realise just how much danger they're putting themselves and their children in when they're pootling along. Just in the last few weeks I've seen quite a few cyclists have near misses because they've been riding irresponsibly and my heart has been in my mouth. One young lad was nearly hit by a van whilst he was riding along checking his phone FFS.

I don't think cyclists should be on the roads at all tbh. Roads aren't big enough, cars these days are too big and not enough cycle lanes.

I saw a child of about 5 fall into the road while cycling with her family on the pavement, heart stopping doesn't describe it!

This is a victim blaming thread. Our roads should be safe for cyclists. I get annoyed when cyclists (and pedestrians) do silly things but they're unlikely to hurt anyone but themselves. Drivers on the other hand need to stop driving aggressively around cyclists (and pedestrians) stop texting while driving and take care.

As for the cycling as a family, I would also have my child in front so I am not disagreeing with the OP there.

It is not for people on bikes to get off the roads and let the cars play not-very-nicely, it is for the drivers to change their behaviour.

knotty

It's not victim blaming FFs.

The worst I ever saw was a couple of years ago and it still worries me. We live in a pretty rural area which attracts a lot of cyclists. We were driving along a national speed limit B road which has blind corners, high hedges, narrow road and no pavement or verge. We came around a corner and we're met with a chap and two children cycling on the wrong side of the road heading right towards us. Luckily we were not driving at 60 and could slow down safely and pass them, but many drivers are not so safety conscious.

I have no idea what he was thinking.

I agree that sometimes it makes my heart stop when I see very young children cycling on the road.

Knottyash - victim blaming is a bit strong! Everyone should just be more considerate of each other. I'm pretty sick of walking along pavements and cyclists hurtling towards me then shouting excuse me or ringing the bell at me, or whizzing through red lights at me and my children.

I hate it too, on a bike you are like a fragile egg balanced on two wheels. So many accidents happen every day. I wouldn't let my children or husband cycle in the road (husband doesn't cycle at all).

Highway Code

The highway code illustrates how much space to give vulnerable road users.

Cyclists are obliged to ride on the road, however slow they are going. They face a £30 fixed penalty for riding on the pavement.

Victim blaming?!
So someone who doesn't ride carefully is not responsible for their own actions?

Not victim blaming at all, just want to see responsible parenting. Yes of course our roads should be safe for cyclists, but i wouldn't say to my kids, "roads should be safe for cyclists, so we're going on a bike ride on a busy road". It would be putting your kids in danger just because you're in the right.

That's interesting, one person saying cyclists shouldn't be on the roads and another complaining about cyclists on the pavement. Could you get together and agree where we should be cycling?

And to answer the OP, I agree. The child should be in front as it allows the adult to take action to protect the child. I would be riding further away from the kerb to force drivers to give the child more space.

Roads are unbelievably busy now, if i had small children i wouldn't allow them to cycle on busy roads regardless of the fact it is their right to do so. Keep them safe.

On a more heartening note, we were driving out of a village and the cars in front of us were slowing to almost a halt and passing very wide. It was a little girl of about 9 or 10 on her bike. Never seen such care by drivers! Wish it was a more regular thing.

Nocake - we don't need to get together and agree, as P1ainJanine points out, the Highway Code already makes it clear.

There is an argument that the parent should be taking the lead when cycling with kids as they are then the ones making decisions about routes, position etc. There is also the danger that a motorist safely overtakes the parent but doesn't see the child in front. It does depend on the age of the kid and their road sense etc - ideally one parent in front and one behind, but that is not always practical.

In a perfect world we should be able to call any road safe enough to cycle on, but for a whole host of reasons this is not the case.

I agree, it scares me sometimes to see how some families ride on the road.

And how bizarre to call it victim blaming, should we all just do any dangerous thing we fancy without consideration for anyone's safety?

I regularly cycle with my kids. We choose our routes carefully to avoid traffic. And always have an adult at the back. We are nice considerate people :)

I estimate that at least one in three drivers who overtakes us comes too close. So many people are simply not prepared to wait 30 sec for a safe overtaking spot and try and 'squeeze through' on our side of the road.

And FWIW I drive and cycle in roughly equal amounts and IMO the vast majority of dangerous interactions between cylists and driver are the fault of the driver, usually due to impatience on their part.

if something's overtaking on the other side and a car has to pull in the child would be killed

How is this different for an adult cyclist?

If you are overtaking in a way that gives a car on the other side of the road no choice but to move towards the pavement, you are doing it wrong.

If you are driving and you move towards the pavement without checking it is clear, you are doing it wrong.

Small children should be where they can be seen.

Very small children should be taught how to safely cycle on quieter roads before venturing onto busy roads

In that we agree.

Where we disagree is your bizarre idea of acceptable overtaking behaviour, and the assumption that "you have to rely on car drivers to see cyclists" is a big thing to ask.

YANBU. It makes my heart jump every time. The worst is on windy A-roads with hedgerows, so nowhere to go if a car gets too close. I wish we could build proper cycle paths everywhere like they have in Holland. It would be so much better for everyone.

As for victim-blaming, get to fuck. It's called personal safety. You should be aware of it and not put yourself and your children in dangerous situations. I would class a car driver who accidentally hit a child cycling on the wrong side of the road as a victim too. It would cut me up for life if I killed or injured someone, even if they were cycling unsafely.

I hate seeing small children on bikes on main roads. In any collision with a car at all, no matter how slowly that car is moving or who is to blame, the child will come off worst. Every time! Why put your children at risk like this?

I took my children on their first busy road ride last week due to necessity. 4 dc and me. The youngest are 5, eldest is 9. I had them all in front of me with instruction to ride on the left but not on the gutter. I rode out wider than them so approaching cars from behind could see them and to encourage wide passing. Where possible we used cycle paths.

We've been practising on our village roads for some time now and the older children have learnt to anticipate what a motorist might do by their road position and their use of indicators. The younger ones are good at cycling in a straight, wobble-less line and listening.

If we don't teach our children to ride safely on the road from young, all we are going to have is adults who cycle with no idea of how to stay safe or react to other road users - a cycle is very different from a motorbike, a car etc. Cycle paths are all well and good, but not everywhere has them.

My tongue in cheek suggestion is a compulsory cycling element to driving tests. Feel the fear of a vehicle passing too close, cutting up when a vehicle passes too closely.

If you are overtaking in a way that gives a car on the other side of the road no choice but to move towards the pavement, you are doing it wrong.
Of course you are doing it wrong, that doesn't help the poor child though does it, that's what i'm saying, and of course it's the same for an adult or a child, either would be killed. My point is, why put a child in that situation. As a parent it's your responsibility to not put your child in that position,

"My tongue in cheek suggestion is a compulsory cycling element to driving tests."

This would actually be about the single best thing that could be done to improve cyclist safety on the roads. The ignorance many drivers have when it comes to all types of vulnerable road users is frightening.

Trills i'm talking about bad drivers overtaking, who said it was acceptable ffs.