AIBU to think SAHMs shouldn't put this nonsense on a CV/job application

[windygallows]

In the last year I've recruited for numerous part-time jobs, receiving applications from many women who took time out to be with family and are now returning to work.

Many of the applicants have been straightforward and simply noted on their CV that they have been SAHM - simple.

But increasingly applicants, perhaps based on some guidance from career counsellors or MN, are finding more creative ways to describe their absence from the workforce.

One, we'll call her Mrs Jones, wrote that for 10 years she was employed by the 'Jones family' and that her work involved 'organizing international travel for her family.' Because organizing a holiday is similar to the tasks led by senior executives.

Another wrote a list of every task she did at home from getting groceries to cleaning the house which, while impressive as an exhaustive list, doesn't really mean much when applying to an office-based role. Especially as it's basically a list of everything most employees have to fit in outside of work.

More galling are the claims that women make about the critical role they played - with my favourite being the one who 'Spent 7 years looking after my two children who needed and deserved my attention.'

There is huge value in the work that SAHMs do but please, please don't put this kind of waffle on your CV. You never know if your interview panel will consist of a FT working, single mom like me who finds it pretty insulting that working means her children apparently lost out on 'the attention they needed and deserved.' Urgh.

@plantsitter - because I did hire a housewife. She wasn't a mother, she didn't stay at home to mother, she stayed at home to run a house and was upfront about it - rather than claiming she had executive level skills she learned something pretty damn useful to save her husband money.

@Gorgosparta - in terms of recruitment a serial volunteer in a high skilled area is often the same or similar quality as a working applicant. They are often interviewed, socialized, go to a work place etc. Someone who does things from home often sets their own schedule and if out of work for a long time can struggle with competing workloads - both sets of applications should be treated differently.

I think there is a real issue about re-entry to the workforce after a career break and how it is treated by employers.

As retirement age is more and more delayed, day to day life often requires two incomes and care is less well funded than it has been in the past, there will be far more people needing career breaks than say 30 years ago.

Employers will need to give some serious thought to getting people back into the workforce and using the skills they have gained throughout their lives, not just rely on a turnover of 23 year olds.

Unfortunately though, there is no consistent approach to it, so probably if you have had a career break and are looking to go back to work, it's worth doing some volunteering of some sort whether that's running the PTA or something entirely different.

For example I gave the housewife I hired far, far more support and my time - she's super intelligent and gets things but inexperienced so it's worthwhile. Volunteers would be expected to hit the ground running to an extent.

Today 07:15 Gonegonegone

'Yes but babbity I don't think sahms &wohms are two neat separate groupings with all other variables the same where we can measure if either had a significant impact on children over all.'

You could say the same about comparison of any 2 groups of people- you're never going to be able to replicate precisely every aspect apart from one. Quite apart from other variables, humans are each unique. I am me; my children are themselves, same for you and yours.

But my point is that looking at things generally, bearing in mind there are millions of WOHP and SAHP so we're talking big numbers, and bearing in mind large numbers have been around long enough for us to have adult children, who are married, with kids of their own....there is no evidence to suggest one group has better outcomes than the other. There simply isn't.

I totally get that as an individual a person may feel that working/staying at home is the right decision for their own situation- but that's as far as you can go. You simply cannot extrapolate from that, that what you do would be right for anyone else.

Like I said, I worked right the way through apart from maternity leaves. If you change some of the variables in my case - e.g.: if I'd had a boring job, if one of my children had been unable to settle in childcare, if one of my children had had very complex SEN.... I might well have made a different decision.

I also suspect that for very many parents they could choose either path and their children will grow up absolutely fine, so it's not this knife-edge decision of having to make the 'right' choice otherwise the world comes tumbling down. My (adult) children are happy and all doing well. I've no doubt if I'd stayed at home they'd be happy and doing well. The really important aspects of parenting- the values you instil and the relationship you build with your children- happen whether you go out to work or not. Those things are far more important than the number of nappies you change per day.

If anyone asks me about the benefits of being a WOHM, I talk about the things that are undeniably true- i.e. My career progression, good pension etc. I would never say 'my children have turned out well because I was a WOHM' - that would be ridiculous because I honestly believe they would be just as fine and close to me as adults if I'd been a SAHM.

and to go back to the issue of feeling valued.... I feel valued in the workforce because I have good colleagues, I do a job which is socially beneficial and I get decently remunerated for it. If I were a SAHM, the only person I would expect to show appreciation would be my dh, because presumably we'd have discussed and made a decision which was mutually beneficial to us. Likewise I would value him for being the WOHP. I certainly wouldn't expect approbation from any other quarter... why would I?

Fuck me, people trying to help is now looked down on aibu?

Oh please, how passive aggresive.

"Trying to help"? Save us your patronising attitude. This is all about having a go at SAHM and ridiculing their attempts to get back into the workplace. The sneering comments on here have been appaling.

And to balance I also think there have been a fair share of backbiting towards WOHM too.
It's fucking horrible all round.

no yorick, I'm not rethinking my stance based on your beliefs, why on earth should I?

you see it one way and I see it another, I dont expect you to bend to accommodate my way of thinking and I wont be bending to yours

each to their own as I said before

nutty i did say it was the same. I said similar.

You didnt talk about serial volunteers. Or say the applications should be treated the same.

I am betting the applicant didnt put accountant down as her job either.

It gave her relevant experience and knowledge. That is relevant on a cv.

I had 4.5 years out of employed work. I set up a successful business with dh. Its now a large company. I decided i didnt like working with dh anymore and saw a job i thought i would like. My experience of setting up a business, building it, accounts, marketing etc was all relevant. Professional experience.

It was relevant as i was applying for a job with a start up.

Trying to help"? Save us your patronising attitude. This is all about having a go at SAHM and ridiculing their attempts to get back into the workplace. The sneering comments on here have been appaling.

No its not. Its meant to be about giving advice.

Some people have sneered. But thats not what the thread is about or what the majority are doing.

Some advice then please. I've been a SAHM for 19 years looking after disabled DC and also DC with serious medical conditions. Now I'm looking for work. What shall I say when asked about the 19 year gap in my employment history?

Gorgosparta setting up a business is professional experience! Even volunteering at your child's school, church ,etc. is appropriate on a CV.

Claiming financial management skills based on paying your family's bills is NOT.

When they started school I did household and business stuff, errands, shopping during the morn, my own time in the afternoon, then picked kids up and spent time with them until bedtime, ferried them to activities.

I don't know why you feel the need to justify what you do between 9 and 3 unless you feel that others are judging your choice. In this day and age, though, a lot of the things on that list get achieved outside the hours of 9-5 because that's how it is for working parents. And "my own time every afternoon" sounds like a lot of free time, so I can see how to some people it feels like you are crowing.

Witchity - simply say that. "Carer for my disabled child." I wouldn't have a problem with that.

Cailleach666

That is clearly not what I said (or meant). But if you think paying your bills is in any way equivalent to my professional accountancy qualification then yes, you'd be completely deluded.

What sort of jobs are you looking for Witchity?

@witchywoo - focus on a skills based CV with specific examples of the skills mentioned in the application. Avoid twee comments - most employers can and do hire people after a career break!

Claiming financial management skills based on paying your family's bills is NOT.

Thats exactly what i was saying.

I was replying to a poster who hired a woman whose experience was doing her husband's accounts for his business. Saying that, the work that woman did was relevant.

Doing things for your own house is different to doing it professionally.

where do you draw the line though? I've just hired a woman who does do the accounts as a housewife (the house, her sole trader husband's) with the condition that she becomes part time CIMA qualified in 12 months (she has taken one exam already and stormed

If she's doing the accounts for her sole trader husband then that's a little more involved (tax returns, VAT perhaps). I'd give that the same weight as someone doing, for example, charity accounts on a voluntary basis. I wouldn't give any credence to anyone who suggested paying their household bills was comparable to either of these things.

Witchitywoo, personally I would address it in your covering letter. Have you done anything to 'prepare' - for want of a better phrase- for going back to work, any courses or volunteering for example?

What sort of jobs are you applying for?

MrsSchadenfreude thank you.

splendide I haven't got a clue what job I'm after. I can't do anything physical because of back issues after looking after disabled DC. I recently gained a BA in business but I don't have a clue what it qualifies me for?

nuttynoo thank you for the advice.

@AccrualIntentions - depends on the house. A self-employed personal household accounts are often a mess. If someone who's stayed at home can demonstrate why, can give specific examples of the actions they did to improve tax transparency (ie calling accountant, calling VAT/Tax helplines etc) I'd probably hire them for a junior position even if they didn't touch the business accounts. Ditto if it's a husband/wife getting a fixed budget and then making decisions about how to spend it - if effective budget management/business management skills I would also be interested. I work in an area where not all cost managers/business managers have accountancy qualifications (we focus on sound judgement then support people with qualifications). So if that can be demonstrated (and it often is especially with small restricted budgets) then provided there aren't any twee statements in the CV I will want to interview.

StatisticallyChallenged I've applied for shop work and royal mail driving job. No luck so far.

It's what job centres, recruitment, cv builders advise you to do! Can't bloody win!!

To those people who've said SAHP aren't valued, I'm still interested in what they actually mean by that. What do they want?

To broaden the argument out, as someone working in education, I value parents who raise their children lovingly and supportively, treading that fine balance between having aspirations and pushing them too hard. I value parents who nurture their children and bring out the best in them, because these children are more likely to be well adjusted members of society. But these things are not to do with whether the parents work or not. I've seen excellent parenting and poor parenting across the board- from parents with both, one of neither parents working.

Looking at things from the perspective of recruitment, as I'm regularly involved in interviewing and appointing, I can assure people that the whole process is so expensive and time consuming, from advertising to the whole selection process, what employers want is simply the best person for the job. There's no hidden agenda to reject all applications from SAHP. It's huge expense and hassle for everyone when the 'wrong' person is appointed; it's all about finding the best fit for the role.

The simple fact is that, all things being equal, someone with up to date skills and experience is going to have the edge over someone who might have great qualities too, but has been out of the workplace for years. That's just a fact. And as others have said, there's no point trying to big up ordinary caring and domestic jobs because everyone else applying for the job will have been doing those too. That's just part of normal life.

Having said all that, I (like many others on here) have appointed people who've been out of the workplace for some time, when on those particular occasions, for that specific role, they have proved them self to be the best candidate. That's really what it comes down to.

My son worked for royal mail for 3.5 years but that was very physical - even whn he was on a van round they still had to leave the sacks around. He starts as a delivery man on Monday and they didn't even want to see CV by the way (which surprised him as he had taken it along) but spend a lot of time on driving tests, sight checks etc. So that kind of job didn't even need any qualifications except a driving licence. My younger son before university is doing Deliveroo part time and again no qualifications there although they do check your bike over very thoroughly.

If you have a bad back post person and delivery person are probably out as loads of lifting but they are certainly possible for lots of women who have been at home who don't have bad backs.

If you can drive Uber might be a possibility although I think the car has to be to a particular standard and they (and Deliveroo) may well not operate in your area. One of my teenagers is on Taskrabbit - you get paid to do different jobs - eg sitting in a house waiting for a delivery for someone who works and can't get time off (although he has not had much frmo there yet but that might be because he has not checked).

If you have a BA then loads of graduate jobs simply want a general degree so it might be work searching graduate jobs on Reed or another jobs provider or looks around. In our area a lot of shops just put a notice on the door when they want a worker or my sons' friends just go into shops or businesses and just ask at the door and tell friends you are looking too. My daughter has worked at firms (she is a lawyer) who to avoid paying a recruitment agent a massive fee have schemes where if you recommend someone good for a job they are trying to fill you even get a bonus from the employer.