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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Why do people fear Home Educators so much?

810 replies

sebumfillaments · 16/08/2017 22:06

Not a TAAT but inspired by the other thread, I was stunned by the level of vitriol aimed at home education. Is it all borne from fear and ignorance?

Home Ed isn't about replicating school. And education isn't (in our case) about gaining qualifications from an institution to increase their value in the workforce!

So why so much animosity?

OP posts:
IDoDaChaCha · 17/08/2017 19:30

drspouse only you can comment on the home education being delivered in your family. But don't assume that's everybody's experience.

MsGameandWatching · 17/08/2017 19:34

Couldn't agree more sleep. Our LA were happy to see the back of us. We had tried everything. Ds had full time one to one and still couldn't manage. It was disruptive for all concerned, to the point where I was getting filthy looks in the playground. We were discussing implementing strategies to support him from reception to Year 3, in four different schools, no one can say we didn't try. MNetters may wish there was more monitoring of Home Ed families but I am not sure in many cases that the LA particularly want it.

Cagliostro · 17/08/2017 20:07

Sleep huge sympathies, sounds like a really tough situation. I definitely empathise with the way your DS masks everything - that was a huge issue for DD, they wouldn't even let her see the school nurse because she was so quiet and compliant in school. No matter how much we told them about the sleep problems, the self harm, the raging meltdowns. We finally got a referral to CAMHS through the GP (who had originally said it needed to be through the school) once we deregistered her, and the psychiatrist who visited agreed we had done the only thing we reasonably could. I hate that it got to that though, that DD suffered huge and lasting difficulties because of being too compliant for the school to notice her. That feeling of being unsafe never leaves you.

My DS was also similar in that some of his issues massively reduced once he left school. He was under SLT since before turning two. He was unpopular and kids thought he was weird because of the way he spoke, he was mocked and mimicked. To quote the HT: "well if he spoke properly it wouldn't happen". We withdrew him halfway through year one and within about 3 months of this he was discharged from SLT - he had made a sudden and vast improvement and could suddenly talk well, and make himself understood. It was incredible and they agreed that this progress was down to no longer being in an environment that terrified him, he had found the freedom to talk knowing that he would be listened to and not teased.

I probably don't need to add that neither school believed any SN could possibly be behind the DCs' issues. Have to admit when they were both diagnosed with autism earlier this year, I really wanted to just go and wave the diagnoses in their faces. I try not to be bitter about it but I hate that my DCs have suffered so much. DS seems to have been young enough to bounce back, DD not so much. Perhaps it would have been different in another school, but when it comes down to it I wish I'd never sent them at all. :(

drspouse · 17/08/2017 20:20

Ido The thing is, it is perfectly possible for parents to home "ed" like my relative with little interference, even in the current UK system.
Many on here say they don't want their child to come away with a fistful of certificates. Even down to saying that's not the point of education. If you want to have the choice of university or mainstream jobs - it's a necessary outcome. Why deny your child that choice?

Many say they can happily do a full time job and home ed - meaning their child will be on their own/not in an educational setting for much of the day, most days (even if they are teaching themselves, they will still be on their own or with siblings, and even if parent is working from home, they will not be interacting if the parent is actually working). I know some use a CM for younger children but that's not an educational setting and is mainly with preschoolers.

Many say it's possible to socialise your child without school - citing lots of activities and clubs - but if you are on a low income that is next to impossible. In most areas children won't get the diversity (ethnic/income related) that they would get from socialising with children in school.

And that's leaving aside those who are dogmatic (and my relative is not hard core religious by any means, so I fear for home ed children whose parents are) or neglectful (my relative seems to think that emotional/educational neglect is teaching their child to stand on their own two feet) or lazy or who actually plan to remove their child from any kind of scrutiny in order to abuse them.

The stories people are telling about schools and abuse/anxiety etc. seem to me to be ones that should end with "and then we took the school to court and the LEA settled and found them a place in a fabulous new school and the teacher was fired" not "and then we gave up on school". The same is true of my teen relative (without the court bit).

CarrieErbag · 17/08/2017 20:27

I am home edding my dd, she is 15.
We withdrew her this year after she reached the end of her tether after being bullied and badly let down by the school with some health issues.
She left at such a vital time, it is a constant source of stress to me that we might fail her.
She was however suffering so much mentally and physically and literally begged us to take her out.
Our family is still hurting so much from the lack of school support, but we are doing our best for our dd.

zzzzz · 17/08/2017 20:37

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

zzzzz · 17/08/2017 20:48

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BackieJerkhart · 17/08/2017 20:52

and then we took the school to court and the LEA settled and found them a place in a fabulous new school

And in the interim? What do you do with your child? They need educated. What do you do until the LEA find this "fabulous" (where exactly? Within travelling distance?) new school?

OlennasWimple · 17/08/2017 20:55

I don't understand why any parent would point blank refuse to allow an LEA officer to see their child to ensure that they are healthy, thriving and receiving a suitable education (the law doesn't give officers any rights to access a home or even speak to a child on the doorstep without parental consent, unless there are such serious concerns that child protection powers or police powers are being used to gain entry).

zzzzz · 17/08/2017 21:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Cagliostro · 17/08/2017 21:06

In all honesty the idea of finding another school straight away didn't come up. We had researched HE years before (but sent DD as she loved nursery and seemed to be flourishing there) and as soon as we realised it was viable right when we needed it, the decision was made.

It was take them out, or risk their mental health declining even further, and the state DD in particular was in made it an emergency. When your 7 year old doesn't want to be alive anymore there's no waiting for LEA decisions.

We discussed maybe putting them in another school at some point but the change in them after deregistering was so dramatic that we realised it was right to keep them home (I say home but we are rarely home). In all honesty they just aren't built for mainstream school, but like many other children mentioned on this thread their needs aren't meeting the criteria for any of the few and far between SN schools either. So HE is where we are and I'm happy with that.

itsstillgood · 17/08/2017 21:07

I have one child in school and one at home. Both have been at home at times and one chose to go to senior school he is just heading in to yr 11, younger one has made decision to stay home for seniors.
I used to doubt my ability to home ed to GCSE level, but having seen a child go through the system I think I would be hard pressed to do it worse.
There are good sides to school but plenty of negatives and the same can be said of home ed too. It's a trade off with what down sides you can live with.
Socially it can be difficult at senior age particularly in the home ed world and people who say otherwise are either naive, lying or very lucky. If I am honest my home ed child may well fit description of odd (although I prefer quirky), but he is happy in his oddness and has a good group of friends which he sees 3 or 4 days a week (could be every day but he needs a day in), if he went to school he'd still be odd but probably unhappy with it.

For many children being home educated they have come out of quite traumatic school experiences so home ed, while not perfect is so much better than where they were that they do get a bit evangelical about it.

I do believe it takes a lot of time, effort and commitment to home ed well whether you go for a more structured approach or unschooling. I have spent about 5hrs over the last few days putting our maths plans in order for the year ahead, no where near finished and that is only one subject.

Someone talked about HE being about following passions rather than collecting certificates, for me I think it can be both. I am lucky enough to live near an exam centre run by home educators. Most local home orders tend to sit at least 5 GCSEs many do 10. Those who don't tend to have particular reasons not to which would have meant the child probably wouldn't have sat them if In school.
I am just trying to give my children the best education and childhood possible and the best opportunities to make a happy and useful life for themselves. As we can never compare a home educated child with what that same child would have done in school or a schooled child with if they'd been home educated, we can never be 100% sure our choices are right we just have to do best we can to do the best thing for our own unique child, just like any other parenting decision.

Witsender · 17/08/2017 21:07

Some simply because they are concerned that there are lots of ways of educating etc, and who is to say that this LA bod won't come in and say they are doing it the 'wrong' way? Given that each LA seems to draw their own lines, many don't have people with any educational experience in post, or use ex Ofsted inspectors you can understand their concern. Many come ploughing in treating HE as a safeguarding issue straight off the bat, which never makes for a mutually respectful relationship.

I haven't turned down any visits (only been asked for 1) in part because the LA here are pretty respectful of HE, and partly because our kids are young (7 and 5) so there isn't much expectation on us at the moment. DH and I are both well qualified, eloquent and confident professionals who can stand up for ourselves if needs be, many don't have that confidence.

Given the report sent to us of our initial meeting contained a load of information that must have been about another child as it was certainly nothing to do with us, and muddled many key issues I can well understand why many are sceptical. 😂

CarrieErbag · 17/08/2017 21:15

I've just replied to our first letter from the LEA regarding our dd.
She will be 16 in 6 months, I doubt they will take much interest beyond filing my reply to them.

Cagliostro · 17/08/2017 21:16

I agree about the qualifications BTW. I don't think they are the be all and end all of a good education, but they are a vital window to many things and not something to sneer at just because they are primarily a school thing. I absolutely hate it when people say that maths never did them any good, for example.

It will be difficult for DD due to her, well, difficulties! And we will most likely have to do fewer and spread them over a few years, I think she would really struggle doing a full set over two years like at school. But age 10 she is passionate about various subjects and is starting to think about what she will need for her dream career (palaeontology) and what other subjects she might enjoy based on her interests (history, mythology and a few others). Not that her interests will necessarily be the same by then, and I want her to experience lots of different subjects for as long as we can, but it's good to have something in mind as an aim - to know that just because she's not in school, and just because she struggles, it doesn't mean she can't achieve. She spent long enough feeling stupid at school (unfortunately this was compounded for a while by a home ed child bullying her for being 'slow', but that's a whole other thread) and I am determined that it won't be a barrier. We just have to go about it in a different way.

It's a really long way off for DS, who in his autistic nearly-8-year-old way is absolutely determined to be a Lego designer when he grows up! But we emailed them and they told him what subjects will be most useful :o I thought that was really sweet of them and DS is now even more enthusiastic.

ragged · 17/08/2017 21:20

I am inspired to list the reasons why people I know were HE'd/ why families I know HE'd their own DC. Most reasons are what the parents liked/wanted, not about the kids specifically:

3 x School too far away
3 x Strong distrust that school is ever a good learning environment
School timetable/hours not compatible with parents' lifestyle (new age travellers)
School doesn't promote right values (religious issues, eventually back into a very religious school)
Kid was deemed trouble maker by staff (went back to school from age 11 & did fine)
Kid had health problems so missing lots of school anyway
Kid (7yo) refused to go to school
Kid learning poorly (learnt much better & faster in HE)

I don't care if people HE their kids. The thing is, a lot of the so-called positives that some HErs list why they like/love HE and think it's great -- those sound like big negatives to me. HE would never appeal to me.

BubblesBuddy · 17/08/2017 21:29

I think the reduction in LA monitoring of home educated children is mainly down to resources and lack of peripatetic teaching teams that gave advice to schools and home ed parents. I worked in an area office of a LA and we had a team of 14 experienced peripatetic teachers and the head of that service visited the home ed children we knew about. We always thought there were more than we had on our books. The home ed families tended to live in certain areas and have similar beliefs. One I remember was a group of self-described witches.

My colleague saw the books the children were reading, heard the children read, looked at their maths and anything else they were learning. The best prepared parents had plans for each subject and kept good records about what had been covered which we appreciated. My colleague worked with the parents and offered educational advice and support. Some of the families belonged to close family/support groups and they supported each other using expertise amongst the group. We were able to have a good relationship with the majority. A few were very defensive and clearly education was a loose description of what they did all day. More visits were scheduled for them.

We had considerable concerns about the welfare of some children and wrote reports to social services for follow up visits. 25 years ago we just did not have policies for child abuse and it would have been very easy for families to move in and home ed without us knowing. It would be preferable for LAs to be able to do detailed monitoring of home ed and work together with the families.

sleeponeday · 17/08/2017 22:09

The stories people are telling about schools and abuse/anxiety etc. seem to me to be ones that should end with "and then we took the school to court and the LEA settled and found them a place in a fabulous new school and the teacher was fired" not "and then we gave up on school". The same is true of my teen relative (without the court bit).

How can they provide a setting calm and non-stimulating enough for him to learn? What would suing achieve?

I studied law at Cambridge. DS has barrister godparents. We wouldn't need to pay lawyers. The problem is, you can't magic a school that can manage a child who is both gifted and autistic out of thin air, and those that do exist can't magic free spaces out of thin air, either. Funding is the problem - our LEA head of SEN provision phoned me up when DS left his first school (he's on the waiting list for the third, now...) and he himself has an autistic child. It isn't as if people work in that area because they want to cause suffering for disabled kids and their parents, after all. There just is not any money. Most schools now don't provide support unless a child is failing to hit targets. Mine was hitting the top possible targets in scaled score terms for his KS1 SATS.His misery wasn't scaleable, and nor was the clear statement from his OT assessment that he could not possibly be achieving his potential when taught in a large class. We didn't even know what his potential was until he left school because the energy and effort he had to spend in masking, and in coping, absorbed so much of his energy, and when the school see a child working a couple of years ahead of age expectations for reading and maths, they think all is tickety boo - and really, can you blame them? Teachers are grossly overworked and they see a kid with educated parents, from a loving home, with what look to them like mild special needs with the mum just sharp-elbowed. How can they justify pouring funding from a tiny budget, when they have kids also with additional needs who can't read or write and desperately need intensive help?

The story shouldn't end with my suing them. The story should never start, because they should have properly qualified SENDCOs without other teaching responsibilities in every class, and classes should be of 15 kids. They manage in Scandinavian countries - they just spend a shitload more.

I could have spent around ten grand on assessments for DS, only to have the same problems in a new school, but with his having a one to one TA whom he might click with, or might not. Bluntly, my mum has a PhD, my husband 3 degrees and 4 A levels in STEM subjects, and I have 5 arts A levels and 2 law degrees. Between us, we can't always manage to answer DS's answers. I have to defer to DH on things about whether the expansion of the sun and consequent cooling would mean equal levels of heat because a larger sun, though cooler, might be able to heat a larger area. And energy is transformed but never destroyed. I haven't done any science since 1990, and it was GCSE at that. I have no bloody clue. And he's 8. I'm sorry, but do you honestly think a school can meet that need on the one hand, and his inability to wipe his own bum on the other? Especially when he won't poo at school because he is too ashamed for them to know that, so he would leave doubled over in pain at home time.

I appreciate that most people don't understand what it is like to have a child with additional needs. That's entirely understandable because nor did I, despite a sibling who does. Half my family have no clue, because my son is charming, loving, warm, gifted and kind. He's nobody's idea of classic autism. But his needs are actually quite massive, and the fact the DLA - notoriously suspicious of claims, and swift to reject - awarded him highest rate of care at first application, with it expiring the day before he turns 16 and stops being eligible, gives you some clue on what life is like. He needs private school levels of class size, and to be taught without being pushed, while still having his (apparently already at A level) critical thinking skills developed. I struggle, and I'm his mum. His qualified one to one primary teacher, with SENDCO training, does too. I just don't think people have the least clue about the state of special needs education funding in this country right now - let alone about the wholesale removal of provision for gifted children.

I find home ed a royal PITA. I adore my son. He's amazing. But it is HARD, teaching him. I'm not good at it and he is so resistant to formal learning that I have to hand over the grammar and maths to a qualified teacher, and do what I can via stealth - we have literally a thousand books on all subjects (Lord bless the Book People, and anyone who ever donates kids' books in good nick to charity shops) and I manage to engage his interest in various topics by seemingly innocent chats, and then oh look, we happen to have a book on renewable energy/the Roman Empire/geological layers found after volcanoes... and it's such a constant effort. But what choice is there?

There is no magic wand, no perfect school properly funded. The best there is is a school who care, who get it, and who allow another ASD kid to chew gum in class, too, instead of (as happened at DS's better school) telling him that they know he only needs to chew when stressed, and they know he loves school, so has no need to.

I would love to send my son to a fabulous school. If suing would achieve it, I would in a shot. But what's the point? When the only state school that could work has no place, and the state is not about to acknowledge that otherwise, no provision but private could work?

I do think a lot of people have a touching faith in what the law can achieve. You see it on here over child residence and contact fights all the time - "go to court!" as though that will wave a magic wand. And "call the police!" as though they can always, or even often, do anything. The law can only enforce what is there to be accessed. It can't create new provision.

sleeponeday · 17/08/2017 22:21

Bubbles I would have bloody loved that sort of guidance and support. I wish it were still available. But if the necessary funding were available, I might well not need to home educate, because it would in turn be available to schools.

Witsender · 17/08/2017 22:27

The point about court seems a bit silly really. Sure, you can pursue them through court if you want, or you can home ed...which is a perfectly valid option. For many it is a fall back, but for others it is the first choice.

notgivingin789 · 17/08/2017 22:33

sleep Forgive me if this is a stupid question. But have you had a look at independent specialist schools, which cater to very academically ASD children ?

OlennasWimple · 17/08/2017 22:42

25 years ago we just did not have policies for child abuse and it would have been very easy for families to move in and home ed without us knowing And it is still very easy to do so - there is no legal obligation for a parent to inform an LEA that they are living in their area and HE-ing whatsoever. There is no join up between GPs' surgeries or other services that might alert an LEA that a new family has arrived (unless there are significant safeguarding concerns). I find this scary for the vulnerable children who desparately need outside support

gillybeanz · 17/08/2017 22:43

Buddies

No disrespect but most H.ed families we came across would refuse a visit from experienced teachers.
What on earth would an experienced teacher know about H.ed?
I am one myself and believe my PgCE nor experience bore no relevance to how dd learned, nor what she chose to learn.
That is why she left school, so she didn't have to follow a nc and learn in a way deemed suitable by others.
Lots of certificates would make no difference to her chosen path, I'm not suggesting they aren't important to the majority of people, but in her case they aren't.
My dd has luckily found her niche where she won't be found to have failed if she doesn't pass Maths or Science GCSE's where the emphasis isn't on passing GCSE's and academic subjects.
Her school is amazing, if it wasn't she would be H.ed again.
She does have to sit in a classroom learning with others but they are such a diverse group like many of her H.ed groups were.
A far cry from learning with the same year group and the narrow social type.

Witsender · 17/08/2017 22:47

Agreed, the ability to teach a class of 30 makes little odds in a home ed setting. And tbh, would ring bells for many as it would tell parents that the visitor would be expecting to see school at home

gillybeanz · 17/08/2017 22:50

Sleep

My apologies, my post was so slow I hadn't seen yours.
Please don't think I was being smug.
I wish there were schools for all children whose parents needed/wanted one. Thanks
I know dd has been very lucky, she doesn't have any diagnosed disabilities but mainstream school doesn't suit her at all.

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