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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Why do people fear Home Educators so much?

810 replies

sebumfillaments · 16/08/2017 22:06

Not a TAAT but inspired by the other thread, I was stunned by the level of vitriol aimed at home education. Is it all borne from fear and ignorance?

Home Ed isn't about replicating school. And education isn't (in our case) about gaining qualifications from an institution to increase their value in the workforce!

So why so much animosity?

OP posts:
grannytomine · 17/08/2017 17:28

I just read that and it sounds like the library didn't cost much. The library was free and we used their books so HE didn't cost much.

WinterIsComingKnitFaster · 17/08/2017 17:28

Well there were a thousand kids in illegal religious schools in Hackney. I'd call that significant. And that's one borough, and only one source of damaging behaviour in the name of HE.

Only 38% of Irish Traveller children reach the age of 16 still in school. And that may well be because schools are failing to meet their needs, but the looseness of HE rules in England just enables Local Authorities to shrug their shoulders and say "not our problem if these kids have no formal qualifications and can barely read, the parents are using their prerogative to HE."

Dina1234 · 17/08/2017 17:33

I can't say that I have ever known anyone to view it with animosity. Of course I have heard a lot of people say that it is inferior to mainstream schooling. In my opinion it just comes down to the parents. I would certainly be open to trying it. As long as it is well regulated to make sure that children are not being deprived a decent education I don't think that it is anyone else's business.

notgivingin789 · 17/08/2017 17:36

cantkeep I agree. That's why I said in a previous post that I wouldn't Home Ed DS unless I have A LOT of money. Even the educational resources I buy for him and the many trips out (as I'm sure most of you parents realise) eats into my purse.

Though, I do think Home Ed is great but I didn't think about the minority of home edders using it as a way to abuse/neglect/ their children...

cantkeepawayforever · 17/08/2017 17:40

OK, I apologise, I phrased an earlier point badly.

I have direct experience of schooled children either showing signs of abuse outside school, or referring to their abuse, or mentioning the abuse of others, to CP-trained adults in school, and of that being dealt with. I also have direct experience of CP trained adults referring less clear 'possible signs' of out of school abuse to designated people, and in some cases that being added to other material to make a significant picture, and in other cases not.

So I know that schooled children have a route - viable, but not perfect - for the disclosure of abuse that is taking place outside school.

I don't know to what extent that same route exists for HE children who are abused, because they do not necessarily have an 'out of home' context with CP-trained adults who might spot signs or be alert to an disclosure.

Does that make more sense? Apologies.

MiniTheMinx · 17/08/2017 17:41

I home educated my two dcs until the eldest went into secondary school. He's just finished his GCSEs. The youngest is also now in school.

The eldest asked to be home educated at age 6. He went from a small nursery into pre prep, and due to financial reasons then to a state school. By the time he got there he was working way in advance of his peers and the school couldn't and didn't want to accommodate this. He became increasingly bored and unhappy.

I ran an education business delivering after school maths in state schools. He came to this everyday.

At home we followed a planned schedule, and lessons. By 10 he was studying IGCSE maths, reading and studying physics, watching lectures on philosophy and had taught himself coding.

Home education can be rewarding, enjoyable and ultimately it can lead to good outcomes provided the whole family is committed to it. It can also be isolating if you allow it, exhausting, and expensive.

I loved spending all my time with my children. They talk very fondly of it and we share great memories.

Do I think it's right for most children.....yes provided it's right for the family. Because I've seen some real horror stories and witnessed first hand some crazy hippy shit, with very unhappy children.

cantkeepawayforever · 17/08/2017 17:41

As long as it is well regulated to make sure that children are not being deprived a decent education I don't think that it is anyone else's business.

As it is not well-regulated in the way you describe, do you think in that case it IS someone else's business?

MiniTheMinx · 17/08/2017 17:41

I home educated my two dcs until the eldest went into secondary school. He's just finished his GCSEs. The youngest is also now in school.

The eldest asked to be home educated at age 6. He went from a small nursery into pre prep, and due to financial reasons then to a state school. By the time he got there he was working way in advance of his peers and the school couldn't and didn't want to accommodate this. He became increasingly bored and unhappy.

I ran an education business delivering after school maths in state schools. He came to this everyday.

At home we followed a planned schedule, and lessons. By 10 he was studying IGCSE maths, reading and studying physics, watching lectures on philosophy and had taught himself coding.

Home education can be rewarding, enjoyable and ultimately it can lead to good outcomes provided the whole family is committed to it. It can also be isolating if you allow it, exhausting, and expensive.

I loved spending all my time with my children. They talk very fondly of it and we share great memories.

Do I think it's right for most children.....yes provided it's right for the family. Because I've seen some real horror stories and witnessed first hand some crazy hippy shit, with very unhappy children.

Fudgit · 17/08/2017 17:43

@zzzzz

"As for, IME schooled children who are at risk when not in school are slightly more likely to be detected how could you know this? How do you count the ones who aren't detected?"

What is your argument here? That some abuse goes undetected?

In which scenario do you think abuse is more likely to be detected - a child who goes to school, has a group of peers, has PSHE lessons, a form tutor and numerous other teachers who are regularly trained to spot the signs? Or a child who has none of these safety nets because their abusive parent home educates?

Ummmmgogo · 17/08/2017 17:45

ok I understand lifeinthecountry thank you for explaining xx

Mittens1969 · 17/08/2017 17:50

@Witsender, that's a ridiculous statement. If there is statistically more abuse known about among the children that do attend school, it's because teachers are trained to recognise worrying signs that a child is abused! That is the whole point, that Home Education isn't monitored enough by outside agencies.

Ummmmgogo · 17/08/2017 17:54

witsender everyone else has already replied to you far more articulatley than I could!

MaisyPops · 17/08/2017 17:56

mittens
To most people it should be obvious that staff with children and vulnerable adults to loads of safeguarding training and have a professional duty to report even the smallest things. Sadly, I've seen threads on MN when people have been too busy berating staff for raising concerns and calling them busy bodies, people who like to create drama etc. Countless times staff working with children have explained safeguarding and safeguarding training and countless times some people have zero interest in actually understanding how it works and why it's important.

Staff trained to notice patterns that may indicate abuse or neglect are more likely to pick up on it than people who think 'it doesn't happen to children like mine/they could just tell me'. But trying to explain that on some threads is a waste of time.

Mittens1969 · 17/08/2017 18:06

@MaisyPops, yes you're right. That was why my DM had no suspicion that my DSis and I were being abused. She's said quite a few times, 'I don't understand why you didn't tell me.'

But she herself was abused by the uncle who she lived with. She didn't tell her aunt about it. So actually she shouldn't be surprised.

Mayhemmumma · 17/08/2017 18:12

Sadly as a social worker I have seen dreadful misuse of 'home educating' from the ridiculous - 'he watches the discovery channel' to the horribly abusive..or children who are carers who are kept off school.

And for that reason I think there needs to be far more careful checks or it should be banned entirely. It's very trendy where I live and I'm sure it works for lots of families and children, it's just I only see the worrying cases

Mittens1969 · 17/08/2017 18:13

So I will always be grateful for the child protection undertaken by schools. At least I know that there are other adults looking out for my DDs, as well as DH and me.

Fudgit · 17/08/2017 18:14

@Mittens1969 Flowers

Cagliostro · 17/08/2017 18:28

I HE and I have no problem at all with monitoring, I welcome it TBH. Most of the families I know locally feel the same, that they have nothing to hide so no big deal to have someone visit and chat to the DCs etc. I've been emailing our LEA rep between visits as she had advice for DH setting up a home ed PE class, and I'm now finding out if she can help us access an ed psych for DD. My kids are happy with the visits, she is lovely to them and interested in what they do. It's just an informal chat.

I don't think our local community is representative of the U.K. though as on various FB groups I have experienced outright animosity if anyone dare 'admit' (like it's a crime!) to welcoming the LEA instead of refusing visits. I think we are very lucky here to have a lovely LEA rep though compared to some experiences I've heard about in other areas. So that probably explains the difference.

I think it's good to have monitoring though and if I have to face the inconvenience of a visit now and again (it's annual here but I honestly wouldn't mind if it were more - but they don't have time anyway because HE has increased massively in our town over the last few years) in order to help potentially safeguard vulnerable children then that's fine.

FWIW DH and I were both schooled, and were both abused as children, DH horrifically so. Neither of us had our abuse picked up by school despite both of us exhibiting signs. I expect that has influenced our feelings on the matter - in our view absolutely anything that gives a chance for a child to be saved, as we were not, has to be worthwhile.

Mittens1969 · 17/08/2017 18:41

@Fudgit, thank you, that's lovely. It's the reason why I get so annoyed at people resenting the monitoring by child protection services. Do we want to go back to the 70s and 80s? We know the bad things that can happen.

@Cagliostro, what you say is so right. I actually knew an American couple who did Home Ed for their 6 adopted children. They hated intrusion from the LEA, because they were extreme American Southern Baptists. I suspect that if you're predisposed to be suspicious of the LEA, then you're likely to view their monitoring as intrusive. (Not that there aren't those who are no more than jumped up jobsworths of course!)

sleeponeday · 17/08/2017 18:46

My child is currently home edded. We're paying for a qualified primary SENDCO to teach him 3 hours a week, and we take him on lots of trips, arrange lots of playdates etc but there are limits and it isn't as useful socially as school. At all.

The problem is his autism means a school has to know how to manage him for him to be okay, and most don't, which is worse because he masks (hides confusion, anxiety and distress) in school to the point they are unaware how unhappy he gets, and he's gifted, so he's not a problem for them there, either.

He's on the waiting list for a school with excellence in handling autism, and who agree they will seek to get him attending 3 days a week, to reduce sensory stress, with an hour the other two days with his current tutor. But when your child needs a class of around 12 kids to cope, and state schools have 30, what can you do? School to him is like a nonstop rave, because his sensory processing challenges are so enormous. He wasn't able to cope. He'd had clinically diagnosed anxiety for two years, which has left him within months of his being home edded.

It's hard because he is also demand avoidant, and masking for school meant he conformed there and did what they asked. His one to one tutor finds it far harder to enforce learning and at home, it's near impossible. But when he was in school he struggled to learn because of the overload, anyway. He was also bored stupid by a lot of what they did because it wasn't truly differentiated - how could it be, in a class that size, with a child who is both autistic and gifted? He would clock watch and was so unhappy.

I hate home edding. I love my kids, but he has no capacity to entertain himself at all so he is very full on. It's hard work and inferior to school, what I can offer... but he would need either a 3 day week at a specific and full to capacity school, or alternatively to attend a local private school with small classes and the traditional approach to lessons he actually thrives under. And we can't afford the latter. So home ed it is.

Believe me, I am worried a lot of teh time that I am failing him and he is missing out in a way that could further handicap him in later life. It's just that I had a child with clinically diagnosable mental health problems, and now I don't. And one who reads a 300 or 400 page paperback in a day (Percy Jackson type level) when he never read for pleasure - he reads the Junior Week every week now, too. So in some academic ways he's doing well. And his scientific understanding is such that his tutor says he outstrips her capacity to teach... but he hates to learn grammar, or other essential building blocks. Her take is that he would struggle with mainstream school, and she's not certain he is suitable for it, but at the same time he would comform more, and that would mean learn more. And as long as he was sheltered from bullying, and his vulnerability recognised and countered, he would benefit from the socialisation. But... we've all been to school ourselves, right? And would we all, hand on heart, say that being the weird kid who finds social interaction hard socialises someone into anything but the sort of cowed body language that attracts yet more bullying, without expert and consistent intervention?

It's very difficult. I find it so. I don't know what the answer is, and I often lie awake panicking that I am shortchanging my son. I'm just trying to do the best I can.

My older brother, also autistic and very bright, was brutally bullied and left school without qualifications - got them as an adult and now has a good job. He's emphatic to my mother that we are doing the right thing. But who knows, really? Nobody on this thread.

I wish people didn't all need others to mimic their own parenting choices. It happens at all stages, and over almost everything. Remember the BLW versus purees idiocy, with tinies? Honestly, most of us do our absolute best in very imperfect circumstances. And if people are really this agitated about HE, then perhaps they should lobby hard for schools to provide better for square pegs, when schools currently provide solely round holes.

MrsTWH · 17/08/2017 18:48

Also bear in mind that children on Child In Need plans or on Child Protection Plans can also be withdrawn to home educate...

Fudgit · 17/08/2017 18:50

@sleeponeday it sounds like you're doing everything you possibly can and your DS is much happier. I really wish there was better support and more funding for kids like your DS. I hope the school place you're waiting for comes through for you.

Witsender · 17/08/2017 18:56

The thing with monitoring etc is that so.much is area dependant. Where we are the advisors are really good, and there is a big home ed community so we are far from unusual. In some areas the LEA use very dubious tactics to overstep their authority, and that puts people on the back foot.

If there were no regional variations and all authorities etc played by the book then I think there would be far less opposition. We had an initial visit quite happily, and nothing since. Mine are quite young though.

sleeponeday · 17/08/2017 19:11

When we withdrew DS the Inclusion Team (new name for truancy officers) wrote and called repeatedly implying heavily that they had the legal right to check us out. I knew they didn't, but didn't want to create conflict when I could work with them. Someone came out and he was lovely. Talked it all over with us, and then said, "For the record, I think you're doing the right thing. A child that unhappy is toxic for the whole family." He wrote us an absolutely glowing follow up letter, setting out what we'd set in place, that DS was clearly very happy and well cared for in every way, and saying that he had no concerns at all.

The assumption that LEAs will always be against home edding is in our experience misplaced. I don't really mind them checking, because I do see that some people really would just not provide an education. And that's not fair on the kids. I would if they'd had the attitude that strong-arming everyone back into mainstream school was the answer, but they really didn't. Quite the reverse.

I think oversight is a good thing as long as it's open-minded and constructive. In our case, it was.

notgivingin789 · 17/08/2017 19:16

Very good post sleep.