To really hate car journeys with my DP?

[lelapaletute]

My DP is lovely, and by and large a quiet, peaceful person. However, he does let himself get wound up by little things and is not very good at controlling his frustrations - he needs to let them out verbally, or by stomping about, banging doors etc. This makes me incredibly tense - I grew up around a lot of arguing and tension and I am ridiculously sensitive to it, I also feel personally responsible when people around me get angry or upset and like I have to 'fix' everything for everyone (another by product of my upbringing, or possibly just my nature, I don't know). We often unintentionally wind each other up with this - he just needs to tut and hide and let it out, I can't handle it so get involved trying to solve the problems or cheer him up which gets on his nerves as he feels like he can't express any negative emotion without me jumping on him, etc etc. I am trying to work on not being so disturbed by perfectly normal frustration and to not get involved unless clearly needed or wanted. It's tough, but I try to just go to another part of the flat or concentrate on something else (much easier now we have a very demanding 6 month old baby!).

However, he does get disproportionately wound up when driving. He HATES delays, traffic, getting blocked in, lane hogs etc. Every journey upwards of 30 mins we've ever had has involved him getting angry and upset. And in the car I can't get away or focus on something else. Anything I try to solve the problem (suggesting alternative routes, telling him to calm down as it's not that big a deal, trying to distract him with other topics) makes no difference it makes it worse - he spends the whole journey trying, groaning, swearing under his breath, or shouting, snapping at me for anything I say - my whole nervous system is raw by the time we get wherever we were going, and even before we go now I'm tense as I know what's coming.

I have suggested we don't take the car unless absolutely necessary, and just travel by train instead, but he hates that too because he has no control of things go wrong, annoying people come and sit near him, worries about missing connections, etc etc. Basically he really likes to be in control of his environment. But if you want to travel, you can't realistically do that - he just can't seem to accept it and put up with it! The only times he has ever been incredibly rude to me is when we're in the car, and he never apologises unless I make a massive thing of it as he thinks I should just know he gets stressed out in the dark and not to take it seriously.

The problem is now worse as we have a little girl - she is a very high needs baby and cries a lot unless she is constantly entertained. If the car stops moving is the worst, she gets really ratty and it's hard to stop her crying - so getting stuck in traffic is now doubly awful.

We were on a 3 hour journey yesterday and were stuck in traffic - DP wasn't getting more and more annoyed and baby was crying louder and louder. He suddenly turned to her and shouted "Just SHUT UP!" really loudly, it startled her and made her jump.

I went fucking MENTAL at him, and told him to never ever speak to her like that ever again. But I really don't think he understands why that is just UTTERLY not on - it's one thing him being rude to me, I don't like it but I can stand up for myself - but she's just a tiny baby! I know how frustrating it can be when she won't stop crying, I'm at home with her all day at the moment and it's hard going, I get angry and upset but I don't let it out because it's not really her fault, she's too young to regulate her emotions.

AIBU to really hate this and never want to get in a car with him again? It makes me worry about ever leaving her with him too - it's not that I think he'd do her any harm, but if his frustration threshold is so low he would shout at her for crying on a three hour journey, how could he possibly handle a whole day of her being difficult without getting angry and shouting?

WIBU to refuse to get in a car with him and baby with him driving again? He is by far the better driver of the two of us - I only passed my test in December, have a visual impairment, and am very nervous on the road (never done motorway) but I feel like I should insist on driving us from now on or I can't complain about how he gets when he's driving...

I feel like a bit of an idiot for having a baby with him sometimes - obviously I didn't know I was going to get such a high needs child, but it was a possibility and at the moment I don't feel like I have a co-parent I can trust to give her the love and patience she needs :(

Anger management course during which he tells counsellor openly (if he thinks it is fine, then why would he not?) that he shouted loudly at his child to shut up, and you travel by train while he takes the car alone.

I grew up with a father like this and it made for a miserable childhood. My mother is not the woman she should have been having to live with someone whose moods she fears and I am not the person I should have been not able to tolerate much conflict, being a people-pleaser and having reduced self-esteem. I would take this event very seriously. Getting so stressed by driving that he shouted 'Shut up' at your baby is not normal behaviour. He needs to own it and get some counselling/anger management therapy and you need to not facilitate him acting this way.

Many issues here but on its own, shouting at a baby isn't an LTB.

I shouted at my baby quite a few times when I just couldn't cope any more, he survived and has no emotional scars.

Start a thread saying you're a shouty mum and feel guilty about it, you'll get pages of support from other shouters. Men aren't allowed to shout on MN, only women.

I was going to say my DH is a bit like this (he is almost certainly on the spectrum). He also made me think of one of my colleagues who was similar (and probably on the spectrum).

However, the difference with both of them and your DH is that they are like that with other people. e.g. DH is hopeless at giving directions and gets really angry with me when I can't work out what he means - I then heard him giving directions to one of his male friends and it was exactly the same (DH can memorise a route having driven it once but is rubbish at conveying that knowledge). Similarly my work colleague will often mutter and grumble about people when stressed but I we working late one night and the muttering and grumbling continued to himself even when there was no one else around to hear (it actually got a bit worse and turned into a dialogue with himself).

If your DH only behaves like this with you then either he his bottling up a lot of feelings during the day and letting them out when he gets home or he is doing it to you because he likes to keep you on edge.

If he is bottling stuff up then he owes it to all of you to go and get some help. If he wants you unsettled then he is not a great husband and father.

"My DP is lovely, and by and large a quiet, peaceful person."

How so? Could you please elaborate on that? Has he always been short tempered or has it got worse since your baby?

It sounds like he has a huge amount of pent up frustration/anger and his outlet is you! (Oh, and your child)

Does he only do it in the car or are there other situations in which he loses his shit?

Re the counselling I think it is a great idea and would also be a good rest of if he is willing to go against his own impulses for mine and baby's benefit - he will hate the idea! But if I say that is the price of our family life, I'm sure he will do it. I agree I need it too - I am not ' talking myself down' when I say I have issues of my own which grate against his. It's a fact. Thank you Uncle Jamie and others for understanding that.

And to all those who would LTB for shouting at her once - while I agree this is unacceptable, of those were the rules he'd have to leave me too. I admit I shouted at her, once, when she was only 2 weeks old, I hadn't slept for days,she was screaming with hunger and refusing to latch onto my (shredded) nipples - I lost it, I cried, yelled, gave her to my DP and banged my head on the headboard in frustration. I was mortified and ashamed, and DP was very understanding and kind to me. I have seem countless women coming on here admitting they yelled at their baby in pure frustration and being comforted, told they are not evil or bad mothers, that it is hard looking after a crying baby, but they should seek help and need support. I don't see why him doing he (very) wrong thing ONCE is an instant leaving offense if I shouldn't have had my baby immediately taken off me for that one lapse of self control as well.

Second all the PPs about him going to counselling, getting that wound up about things out of his control is incredibly fruitless and not good for anyone.

Has he got worse since your child was born? I ask because I used to be like him and got worse when our kids were born. My snapping and need for control was a reflection of how stressed I was about a bunch of stuff and how I was heaping expectations on myself that no one else had of me. I needed to calm down and cut myself some slack and look after myself a bit more. And I only learnt that (and where it came from) through the counselling.

I think if you put it in terms of not wanting either your upbringing or his depression/moods to affect your daughter's upbringing, which it definitely will if things carry on as they are, then it's a "seek help if you want to keep your family" situation. You could say that you're not attacking him and you realise that you BOTH need help, but when push comes to shove it's not healthy for any of you for things to continue with this level of tension. If he point blank refuses to get help, see his GP and try counselling (better still, medication and counselling) then you will have to say that the alternative is separation. That puts the ball in his court then.

Either way, I think you could benefit from seeing YOUR GP about counselling - sounds as though you had a high tension and unpredictable upbringing yourself. 💐💐

It's not the one incident of shouting at the baby that's a worry
You've described a very unpleasant man apart from that
Anger management might help
But if he can control himself in other situations....

It has got worse since baby - I think we're both overwhelmed by how much she needs us and cries. He's having to support me emotionally and practically a lot. Not excuses, but explanations, and factors we need to find better ways if dealing with.

Great to hear you will consider counselling. This is not beyond saving, but only if he is willing to do the important work needed. Good luck!

Shouting in desperation after sleepless nights, and feeling bad about it, is not the same as regularly being unable to stay calm on even a 30-minute car journey, including yelling at your child and making out that this is no big deal.

Sounds like textbook anxiety to me.
Anxiety often presents as extreme anger, often in response to situations where the person is scared or frustrated about losing control.
Having a young child can make this worse.
He will need to want to get help. You might have to lay it all out for him and tell him the alternatives: identify his triggers and spell out what your rules will be, eg you will record him in the midst of a rage and make him watch it back and explain how hia behaviour is appropriate, he isn't allowed to drive until he can control his stress and anger.
Good luck.

I can relate, OP. My DH has a short fuse when driving, he gets impatient and gets annoyed with people cutting across him, it's the only place where I hear him swear (at other drivers, not us, I hasten to add)! He gets fed up with road signs but doesn't like using the sat nav, when he does he gets annoyed with that. (He has the map switched on though.)

And yes he gets frustrated with our DDs, but they talk incessantly now, bicker and have started backseat driving.

He doesn't get mad all that often but it is his reaction when things don't go to plan. I would also use the phrase 'control freak', it's more negative than I want to be but it is a factor.

He's so mild mannered normally, so but he doesn't cope all that well with stress, so I expect that's why he gets wound up behind the wheel. He has been been going to stress management sessions, though, and that is really helping him.

We'll be going on a long journey to our seaside holiday on Friday so it will be interesting to see if the work he's done helps him to be calmer behind the wheel.

Your DP can change, but he has to want to, and, from what you've described, he doesn't appear to care. But the help is there.

In the meantime, maybe he would be less aggressive if you were driving. I'm guessing your eyesight isn't all that bad, as you were able to pass your driving test. Some people get more stressed as a passenger as they're not in control.

If you even share the driving, it might ease his level of stress. Maybe taking the pressure off him to drive will help. That's what DH and I do. He drives more than I do, but he is a better driver and gets less tired.

Yes, I should clarify, the shouting at the. Any isn't great but we have all lost it as a parent and it's sort of within the realms of crap parenting behaviour.

It's the general acceptance that he needs to storm around to let off steam and in a car is unbearable with him.

He sounds like a real jeckly and Hyde. And that is not good.

The longer term issue here is the family's future dynamic. When your baby cried, she was only doing exactly the same as DH was doing - getting frustrated at the situation. But he didn't allow her to respond in what was effectively a small baby's only way of communicating. Only HE was allowed to lose his rag. And that is a real red flag, however nice he may be some/most of the time.

You acknowledge that you have issues of your own resulting from your childhood. As a result you try not to antagonise him, and you're taking some of the blame for this situation on yourself for being over sensitive. But looking at it from the outside, he has problems, whether you are supersensitive to them or not.

Your little girl is going to grow up having to do the same as you are doing now - learning to modify her behaviour. If Daddy's in one of his moods she (the child) is going to have to be the one who tiptoes around, rather than him (the adult) learning to modify his behaviour.

That isn't the way she should grow up, as you know from your own childhood, and it needs to be addressed now before he does her any long term damage.

TheDevil that is EXACTLY the issue in a nutshell a X thank you for putting it in a nom-hysterical way. It is a FAR from ideal, and potentially damaging dynamic and I am very alive to that; but he's not a monster or a master abuser. He's just imature at coping with his emotions, and to a degree I've been enabling him to be so by tiptoeing round him, as I've been programmed by my childhood to do. That has to stop now, because this is no longer our little mostly-happy-but-slightly-dysfunctional two-step - we have a baby, and both of our little fucked-uppednesses cannot be allowed to inhibit or damage her. I just need to make her understand that (a) it IS a serious issue that needs fixing and (b) f it can't be fixed I will be forced to put her first and avoid her being bent to our dysfunctions, by whateveeans necessary including separation. But as a child of a 'broken' home I am also aware that that brings its own issues which can harm a child's development and sense of security, so I am not going to leap to that as my first solution. I think he struggles to see other people's point or view. I have to try andake it clear to him it doesn't matter if he agrees I'm being reasonable or not fundamentally - these are the red lines and these are the steps we have to take if we are going to continue to raise our girl together in a healthy way.

Make *him understand, that should have been. She doesn't understand much at this age!