To really hate car journeys with my DP?

[lelapaletute]

My DP is lovely, and by and large a quiet, peaceful person. However, he does let himself get wound up by little things and is not very good at controlling his frustrations - he needs to let them out verbally, or by stomping about, banging doors etc. This makes me incredibly tense - I grew up around a lot of arguing and tension and I am ridiculously sensitive to it, I also feel personally responsible when people around me get angry or upset and like I have to 'fix' everything for everyone (another by product of my upbringing, or possibly just my nature, I don't know). We often unintentionally wind each other up with this - he just needs to tut and hide and let it out, I can't handle it so get involved trying to solve the problems or cheer him up which gets on his nerves as he feels like he can't express any negative emotion without me jumping on him, etc etc. I am trying to work on not being so disturbed by perfectly normal frustration and to not get involved unless clearly needed or wanted. It's tough, but I try to just go to another part of the flat or concentrate on something else (much easier now we have a very demanding 6 month old baby!).

However, he does get disproportionately wound up when driving. He HATES delays, traffic, getting blocked in, lane hogs etc. Every journey upwards of 30 mins we've ever had has involved him getting angry and upset. And in the car I can't get away or focus on something else. Anything I try to solve the problem (suggesting alternative routes, telling him to calm down as it's not that big a deal, trying to distract him with other topics) makes no difference it makes it worse - he spends the whole journey trying, groaning, swearing under his breath, or shouting, snapping at me for anything I say - my whole nervous system is raw by the time we get wherever we were going, and even before we go now I'm tense as I know what's coming.

I have suggested we don't take the car unless absolutely necessary, and just travel by train instead, but he hates that too because he has no control of things go wrong, annoying people come and sit near him, worries about missing connections, etc etc. Basically he really likes to be in control of his environment. But if you want to travel, you can't realistically do that - he just can't seem to accept it and put up with it! The only times he has ever been incredibly rude to me is when we're in the car, and he never apologises unless I make a massive thing of it as he thinks I should just know he gets stressed out in the dark and not to take it seriously.

The problem is now worse as we have a little girl - she is a very high needs baby and cries a lot unless she is constantly entertained. If the car stops moving is the worst, she gets really ratty and it's hard to stop her crying - so getting stuck in traffic is now doubly awful.

We were on a 3 hour journey yesterday and were stuck in traffic - DP wasn't getting more and more annoyed and baby was crying louder and louder. He suddenly turned to her and shouted "Just SHUT UP!" really loudly, it startled her and made her jump.

I went fucking MENTAL at him, and told him to never ever speak to her like that ever again. But I really don't think he understands why that is just UTTERLY not on - it's one thing him being rude to me, I don't like it but I can stand up for myself - but she's just a tiny baby! I know how frustrating it can be when she won't stop crying, I'm at home with her all day at the moment and it's hard going, I get angry and upset but I don't let it out because it's not really her fault, she's too young to regulate her emotions.

AIBU to really hate this and never want to get in a car with him again? It makes me worry about ever leaving her with him too - it's not that I think he'd do her any harm, but if his frustration threshold is so low he would shout at her for crying on a three hour journey, how could he possibly handle a whole day of her being difficult without getting angry and shouting?

WIBU to refuse to get in a car with him and baby with him driving again? He is by far the better driver of the two of us - I only passed my test in December, have a visual impairment, and am very nervous on the road (never done motorway) but I feel like I should insist on driving us from now on or I can't complain about how he gets when he's driving...

I feel like a bit of an idiot for having a baby with him sometimes - obviously I didn't know I was going to get such a high needs child, but it was a possibility and at the moment I don't feel like I have a co-parent I can trust to give her the love and patience she needs :(

"But then I do wonder if I'm asking him to repress his feelings excessively because of my own issues."

I can answer that. No, you're not.

A good question to ask yourself is would you like your girl, when she grows up, to live the life your're living?

Wow some of you are being kind of harsh (but hey AIBU, what did I expect). I completely see what you are all saying though, seem from the outside it might appear I am a doormat and am not taking proper care of my daughter. I could assure you all that he loves her dearly, plays with her for hours specifically so she WON'T cry all the time, does everything around the house to support me caring for her and breastfeeding her as well as a full time job, does all manner of unsung, daily, tender things for us both, etc etc - but you'd still just shake your heads, think I was a mug and say LTB. I acknowledge the relationship isn't perfect, I even acknowledge I might have been mistaken to have a baby with him without sorting these issues out fully. However, I would like to explore other options before giving up 10 years and our daughter's family as a waste of time. I do believe he can change, as can I. If that turns out not to be the case rest assured I'll do whatever I have to to protect her from ending up with my neuroses.

Him shouting loud, making her jump is not what a loving dad does I'm afraid OP.

The problem is HIM and not YOU.

I think it's pretty irrelevant what he does when he's being "nice". If he can't stop himself shouting at a baby he isn't nice. Just like a man could cook, clean, work, look after the baby and buy you flowers but if he has hit you once, he's the worst person in the world.

He cannot be in a car for 30 minutes without losing his rag!

That is not normal.

He sounds like my asshole ex husband. He needs help for his anger issues.

If you never travel with him, would yourather life then work? I.expect. if you go anywhere, you go separately? Maybe that could be an initial option. But it needs to be backed up by him deciding to work on these issues.

I think deciding on your boundaries and sticking to them is essential. He has shown he cannot deal with travel stress in any form without harming your life and harming your child. That can't happen any more. Travel separately for now.

In the meantime, this 'control' thing is a red herring. Nobody has total control over their lives, we don't live on individual islands nor would life be possible if we did. He needs to accept and manage his own emotions without lashing out. I think he could be a great candidate for CBT (and i am not a fan of it for everyone) in combination with a marriage course so that you can both learn to express yourselves safely to each other. If these things seem expensive, divorce is much more so and so is therapy for your poor child in the future

God bloody phone typos. Sorry.

OP you could be me writing about my DH 10 years ago. Turned out he was quite severely depressed and could only vent his feelings at me/at home as it was "safe" - i.e. he wouldn't lose his job (which he would have done had he "vented" at work.

I had an emotionally abusive upbringing and am still hyper-sensitive to mood. Our dd is also hypersensitive and was incredibly anxious and I spent years feeling as though it were my job to soothe the whole household.

My turning point with my DH when I handed him the phone and said "You WILL make a GP appt" was when he shouted at our dd. He was prescribed anti-depressants and counselling. He looks back to how he was and feels terribly guilty.

Re the ranting in the car, that got much better, although he does still do it, it is literally letting off steam and there's no real anger behind it. Dd and I either laugh or roll our eyes now.

Apparently when I used to try to placate him or help, it used to make him more cross as he literally was just venting and didn't actually WANT help. It's hard when you're a people pleaser BUT gradually you can learn to stop - take a breath - and think "No, this is his feelings/mood, not mine - it's up to him to make things better if he wants/needs to."

On the odd occasion that DH has a rant, I literally say to him "Are you wanting help/input with this, or are you letting off steam?" Most of the time it's the latter. Two minutes later and he's fine.

IMO you could both do with counselling - separately and then together. 💐

Afew of us have suggested counselling and you haven't made any comment on that.

Can I ask why?

If he can hold down a job without behaving in the same way OP, then he sees you & your baby as less important.

You mention you had a tense upbringing.. tell him he needs to address his issues QUICKLY and properly, otherwise your daughter will end up with similar problems to you x

I can't get over him shouting at the baby. Is honestly LTB purely because of that.

You've passed your test so are clear drive. So I strongly suggest you do so and stop making excuses.

As for your dh, you yourself say he's not like this with other people. So he chooses to take it out on you. And your baby. At what point do you stop making excuses for him being awful?

He doesn't sound lovely, he sounds abusive and controlling. The main red flag for me here is he is just like this with you - no problems with his temper at work etc.

You are living your life on eggshells around him OP - it is no surprise you are anxious and second guessing yourself.

This is a good book btw: www.amazon.co.uk/Dont-Have-Make-Everything-Better/dp/0140286438/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1502787963&sr=8-1&keywords=i+don%27t+have+to+make+everything+all+better&tag=mumsnetforum-21

So you have to change to suit him but he doesn't have to change to suit you?

I'd bet good money that your 'high needs' baby would be a very different child without this aggressive, bad tempered man in her life.

I bet you're not a shit driver. I bet it's his responses to your driving that make you feel you are.

I get that you don't want to leave. I would do two things: 1) tell him he needs to get counselling for his anger/control issues, and 2) stop getting into a car with him, for any reason, whoever is driving, until he's done this. That will show him how seriously you take it.

Counselling has been suggested to you OP. You have not responded to that suggestion. Is that because it will create an environment he cannot control?

I am with the others by the way. He is very far from "lovely". Of course he could "change", by which I mean be better able to control his reactions. But the only way he will change is if he is willing to look at and examine his own behaviour. Which brings us back to the question about counselling.

I used to be married to someone like this. It got worse and worse. The toddler years were awful, imagine the stress involved in dealing with a toddler tantrum. I never solved it, we got divorced (for all sort of other reasons, as well as this) and my life is now very peaceful! I also discovered that actually I'm not a shit driver at all, strangely enough, but was always very nervous with him in the car reminding me about what a nervous driver I was and how supportive he was being by helping me to manage!

Not helpful to you! But I would put your foot down about the car. Refuse as much as possible to get in it. Stand up for your dd everytime. He's NOT a good driver if he spends his journeys ranting and raving, he's an awful driver. I used to get the "I'm healthily getting my emotions out, this is your problem" too.

Tell him you won't put up with it, it's your home too. If he needs to slam doors then he needs to go out for a walk and vent away from you.

Tell him you want couples counselling because you won't put up with it. For this argument to work though you need to be really serious about not putting up with it. Look into living alone and what you'd need to get in place, even if this is your last resort. I used to think I was standing up for myself by confronting it sometimes, but of course nothing changed, and for me it got worse, because I think subconsciously, by staying there, you're actually clearly telling him that you will put up with it.

He is a bit of a control freak is the main thing, if he can arrange his own environment (eg on the home) he's fine, very funny, very gentle)

That is exactly what men who control women do. They are fine as long as they are in control. By doing that they train women to dread them losing their temper and be desperate to keep them in the mood where they are gentle, kind, loving etc. The women become controlled by them and behave so that the man does not get upset - appeasing them, taking blame and criticism, giving into them, finding ways round things to keep them happy, putting up with the tantrums, verbal abuse etc. This is exactly what you are describing.

You need to tell him that unless it stops you will leave. He has to know you will not be putting up with it a minute longer. If he is a lovely man, he will be devastated, get help and learn to be different. If he isn't he will dismiss your views or control himself for a week and either way it will keep happening.

He sounds as if he will get worse as time goes on.

Stop minimising it, stop allowing it to happen and him to get away with it, stop putting yourself and your baby in this position. It isn't fair to you or her. You deserve better.

I can see a lot of what you've written about your DH in me. I also get incredibly frustrated at times when driving. I also might shout if trapped in a car with loud screaming when I was really tense. I also get very anxious and panicky when things are out of my control. I have Asperger's.

Can you sit down with him when he's calm and tell him how much this is upsetting you - both the driving issue and the stomping around at home? Could you come up with some contingency plans for when he's like this?

I frequently get frustrated about things. Generally, my DP doesn't react, doesn't take it personally, and know that a few minutes later I'll apologise if I've snapped at him/used an angry tone (he calls it my anger/guilt cycle). It sounds hard if you're in a flat - can he go into another room and shout into a pillow or something? Playing loud music often calms me (on headphones if it would disturb neighbours).

The driving thing is difficult, because he'd probably be just as appalling a passenger. If you make it clear that this is a really huge issue, then maybe he can come up with some suggestions? You could drive, with directions on the satnav, and he could be in the back with the baby - having agreed not to be a backseat driver!

What stands out to most people, and the reason they've reacted like this, is that you said he's a nice gentle man who only gets mad in the car, but then say he regularly slams doors, needs to vocalise his anger at home, frustration, tuts, and you need to remove yourself. This is not, I repeat, not normal at all. My husband doesn't bang and tut and slam doors, or if he does, it would be pretty rare. It isn't how we live. Your husband isn't just intolerant on the roads, either, he's horrible on public transport, other people annoy him, heck, his own child annoys him. You sound worried and stressed to be around him. That's how your child will feel when they are older.

My husband was a bad driver, not bad tempered, just bad at driving and it used to make me stressed, so in the end I just started driving everywhere. He took advanced driving lessons for free (offered by ROSPA in our area) and got much better and I started going in the car with him again.

But, the driving isn't the issue here, as even if you solved the driving issue by driving everywhere, you would still have him being irritable in public and tutting and huffing and slamming stuff at home. He' s basically an angry person who is nice on occasions. Not ok. He needs to go to get help for this as you can't live like this for ever or expect a child to do so. It's frightening for you, and will be for a child.

I think, based on the information you have given, is that you need to drive and he sits in the back with the baby. I learnt to drive 15 years ago and quickly stopped driving. I have ASD and OCD and found it the most stressful experience ever. I can't do it. But I'm happy with public transport.

Could he read or listen to music in the car? Something to distract himself or stay calm.

It sounds like you both express frustration quite differently which annoys each other and isn't helping the overall situation.

I clearly remember being extremely sleep deprived and exhausted and shouting at my then four month old baby to shut the Fuck up at about 4am in 2007. He doesn't remember it but it wasn't indicative of a long term issue, which this potentially could be without a solution being found.