To think DD isn't bright enough for university?

[AlisonJD1975]

There's lots of university threads at the moment so figured I'd ask.

DD is getting her results this week (Maths AS Level and Psychology and Sociology A Level). She failed her AS Level Maths so they said she could retake it as she was doing okay in the other subjects. She is expected to get a U in the AS Level Maths and Cs in the A Level Psychology and Sociology.

She has a conditional offer for an extended bachelors degree so it's 4 years long and she needs to get 2 Ds for that.

I'm just a bit worried that she won't really cope and I actually just feel quite sad. In life I really just want her to be happy and in a good job.

There was a LOT of maths in Psychology when I did it. And it was hard. It's a science degree rather than a arts degree.

I got an E in Maths A level and just managed the maths in Psychology, which doesn't involve the more batty ideas you cover in A level maths (imaginary numbers WTF?). I got a good degree but I got 3 other A levels and an AS with good grades.

She might find the combination of maths and essays hard. How is she with writing essays?

I think the school should have seen much earlier that the A level maths wasn't working for her - I think that's their fault not DD's - and it certainly doesn't mean she's not clever enough for uni. It was just an unfortunate choice.

If she gets in, she's bright enough.

Not necessarily so, universities are under terrific pressure to get students through the door, the grade requirements aren't a reflection of how rigorous the course is or how able the student is to complete the course.

I've seen at first hand students who aren't really cut out for university, who thanks to parental or peer pressure have gone to university and floundered. What is depressing is not those who drop out, but those who plough on with a course that isn't right for them.

I think she might need time and space to think what she wants to do, what she feels she's capable of and what she wants to do once the slog of the a-levels is out the way.

If she got an A in maths GCSE then what went wrong for her to get a U in AS? And why did she do Maths AS rather than A?

I got a piss easy, eyes-closed A in GCSE maths. A level is a MASSIVE jump.

I pissed about during my A levels - was working in a shop, learning to drive, out partying most nights (all those 18ths!). Got average results but went on to do well at university - I just knuckled down.
Turns out I was bright enough.

What were her GCSE results like?

I teach at higher education level. I work privately with students on a range of courses from medicine through to social work and psychology. I have an academic background that includes a degree in psychology myself. It is a very competitive area, and finding an assistant psychology post is very difficult without a masters degree from a good University (i.e. Russell Group). I work with many students who have been accepted on social science degrees at former polytechnic Universities because they struggled with A'level grades. Higher education can be an eternal challenge for some students, particularly if they pick a subject they are not naturally inclined to do. Several have aspired to be psychologists but gone on to train as social workers (assistant psych. posts are very low pay, long hours etc).

Your daughter may have picked the wrong subjects for A'level or she might be a late bloomer. You could look into rescuing her studies with a private tutor, or plan for work experience/ NVQ at college...she could reconsider University as a mature student. Perhaps she should look at mental health nursing or care-work? It would give a good insight into the career area, and then she could decide whether she really wants to train as a psychologist. The research methods modules at BSc-level are a challenge for students who have not taken A'level maths or have an inclination towards statistics.

The degree sounds a bit woolly and two Ds is pretty poor. However, I know nothing about this topic or CAMHS. I think that she'd benefit from discussing this with someone who is doing the job she eventually wants.

One of my lecturers at Uni told us that if we wrote one essay a week, our tutor marked it, and we paid attention to the markng, then we'd get a First. One student did just that - one essay a week duly handed in and marked - for 3 years. Yes, he got a First. I wish I'd done that

Why is studying a waste of time? She isn't wasting time doing a meaningless degree while she could be getting on a career path. What career do you honestly suggest she just walks into?

I'm studying (similar situation to your DD WRT the grades) and plan on then doing an access course or maybe even a foundation year and guess what? Then go and do a degree shocking, eh? We might as well not go to uni... Why on earth would we want to learn about being independent!? Why on earth would we want to do a degree that interests us?

I'm not the sharpest tool in the box, but it definitely doesn't mean I can't go to university. Madness. Life isn't about earning all the money in the world and spending it on expensive things. I have a part time job (11 hours a week) and have saved 7k in just over a year. I'm 18 and doing my A-Levels - I'll have saved more money than some of the straight A student that are my age. Just because someone not as intelligent wants to go to uni, doesn't mean they are going to end up on the streets, miserable with no money... Oh and I want to do a course that has been slated on here lately.

I think it's a legitimate worry and you're honest to express it - with the average student coming out of university with a £45,000 to £60,000 debt it isn't going to be right for everyone and not all degrees will pay back in career opportunities.

But it's a bit late now! I think these questions would've been better asked a year ago. She will find out on Thursday whether it's achievable with her results - if not you will need to support her to consider other options.

@Garlicansapphire - the dept is hardly a worry though, is it? You only start paying it back when you hit 21k and then it's a tiny repayment. After 30 years it's gone anyway.

In my experience, university is easier than A Levels. Sure, it's at a higher level, but it is structured differently... I don't know. I just think it's easier and when I asked this question of my peers, many said they felt the same.

The only think you do need is intrinsic motivation. If she's motivated, she'll be fine. There were a few not-so-bright kids on my course and they all passed.

The only thing, that should have said.

Well if you've done a degree you might very well hope to hit the 21k level at some point and paying back the debt might hinder your ability to save for a car or house I think. So it's the opportunity cost of how you might have used your income. And there is published data which rates how much each degree at university is likely to get you in earning potential based on past students salaries and ability to get a job and not all are worth it. It could be quite a lot of slog for poor employment prospects.

The talk for my DD at school firmly advised students to look at al the other options like apprenticeships and be honest about their desire to carry on with further study. They very much emphasised that university isn't for everyone. But as I say those were considerations for a year ago and if the daughters keen to go I think she needs parental support.

I do have a pal who is doubting his rather charming but lazy son going off to uni - he thinks he's going for the partying. (Which is probably what I did but I didn't get a debt!)

You're up late! Like me...I've got jet lag.

Maths at A Level is HARD. I scraped a D, but went on to uni to do a non-maths degree and go a 2:1.

Doing a foundation course is the best of both worlds. It's a year to try it out and see if it's for her. She'll still have something to show at the end of it.

I think she's definitely bright enough to go.

My mum was very much of the "are you sure you're clever enough" camp whenever anything academic was concerned and despite studying I did pick up on it, and it hurt.

Martin Lewis on student loans is worth a read: www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes

I have A levels in both psychology and sociology, both grade A. I'm hopeless at maths! The psychology involved a lot of statistics, which is a different animal to maths.

I also have a degree in public health. The degree course was much easier than the A levels and completely different in content and structure.

Encourage your daughter to achieve her ambitions, education is a wonderful thing.

I went to university with 2 c's and a u at a-level. I can't remember what the entry requirements were, 2 c's or 2 d's I think). I graduated 3 years later with a 2:1.

That was nearly 20 years ago now though when tuition fees were a lot lower. I'm not sure if I would have gone if I was 18 now.

I think motivation and ability to work hard are more important than being "bright". It's possible to fail exams for many reasons other than being "dim". Are retakes a possibility?

FWIW, I aced my mock exams with straight As but only managed Cs for the finals. I did retakes at a crammer. I'm currently working on an MA.

I went to university with a D, E, N. I was capable of far more. But my dad had died two days before I sat my 'O' levels and I'd received no support. Mother is a narcissist and never comforted me, not once and denigrated his memory to me instead. So I couldn't concentrate and spent hours sitting at the end of my bed in a semi catatonic state while hours passed by. I was incapable of studying for my 'A''s.

I got a 2:2. My lecturer came up to talk to my friend and me when the results came out. I thought he was talking to her when he said the individual grades for each subject (which hadn't been published that someone - i.e. One of us - had missed a 2:1 by a hairs whisker). I thought he was talking about her. Nope. Me. I got these grades again not because of my capabilities but because I went into a deep depression in my final year and was receiving counselling. And the pain got worse before it got better. My course work suffered and some days I couldn't get out of bed.

I'm not saying your dd is me. However, don't give up on her. University imo is far easier than 'A' levels. And if she doesn't pass one or two of the subjects, they used to let students resit in the summer. I assume nothing has changed.

I didn't get great school results the exams stressed me so much because I wanted to do well and so I ended up with migraines and not doing as well as I would want to. I ended up in a university doing the subject I wanted but it was one of those used to be a "polytechnic" in the 90s university's and you know what. I worked hard course work counted for 30% and being a little older helped. I ended up with a first and going on to a PHD in a red brick uni and on to a good job. I don't regret it at all. Just support your daughter be there for her for what she wants.

On results day, can you go into her school with her and get advice from her teachers? They will know where students went with similar grades before and may know how they did on courses. The Psych and Maths teachers should be able to comment on whether she has sufficient functional maths/stats skills to cope with the degree (I'd be surprised if she doesn't and anyway, the foundation course should include remedial maths and stats).

Don't underestimate the effect your belief (or lack of) in her might have.

I am an A level teacher in my 40s with a first class degree and I still remember off hand remarks my uber critical dad made about my chances!

The mistake seems to be the maths choice and that can happen but it shouldn't affect her chances of doing well in another subject.

I struggled with O level maths (had to take it twice to pass) then failed A level Economics and also had to retake it for a C the second time round...went to Uni and got a first class degree in Philosophy/Sociology, a Masters with Distinction in Philosophy and. PhD accepted with no corrections, then became an academic. Still can't do maths or understand economics, not everyone is good at everything.

Does she want to do her degree? That is the most important question? If she is interested and enthusiastic about it she will find the motivation to work hard at it.

I did archaeology with a D, E and a U. Got a 2.1 and work in the field now.

The difference is i worked for 10 years before going to uni as mature student at age of 30.

Uni is different to A levels. More support as well. She could do it.

My sibling got the exact same grades at A Levels (2 Cs and a U), went to a Russell Group university (unpopular course through clearing) and got a 1st then went onto to win a place on a prestigious 'invitation only' investment banking grad scheme. If she's a hard worker uni can end up being a better experience.