AIBU to ask what you think of this? (parenting question)

[LapCatLicker]

DH and I have a longstanding disagreement over how we discipline DS(6). I am going to give you a pretty much verbatim example of him disciplining DS and would be very interested to hear your views. (The AIBU will come after I get a sense of how people regard his tactics, I don’t want to lead anyone to a conclusion they wouldn’t get themselves IYSWIM)

DS “Can I play a video game?”
DH “No, you’ve been on a screen all day, find something else to do” (this is not the AIBU, we both agree to limit screen time, so far, so good)
DS (desperately trying not to cry but tearing up all the same) “Please can’t I play? There’s nothing else to do”
DH “Crying boys don’t get to play video games, crying boys get sent to bed early” (Which he never does, he just threatens to)

Any opinions on this?

I don't see any need to threaten or punish anything here.

Your DS was not having a tantrum. He didn't need to be told off or to be made to feel bad about being upset.

I agree with PPs, a few suggestions for other activities. Then obviously deal with the following behaviour. No child should need to be entertained all day, but they love and thrive with positive interactions as much as possible.

Empty threats are the worst, they achieve nothing other than making a sensitive child feel bad or making a more robust (can't think of a better word right now) child ignore warnings because the threats are never carried out.

No need for him to mention "crying boys". This sort of rubbish is what leads to the stigma about emotional men and the myriad of mental health problems stemming from that

This x100. 'Tantrumming children' or something would make a massive difference to his mindset growing up - crying is a normal emotional response and there is no reason at all to point out crying 'boys' get punished because it just reinforces the fact that boys should cry but girls can. Absolute bollocks.

Plus he's giving a threat and not following through which is just plain ineffective.

Your DS is 6, he needs guidance. 'No, you've been playing on your screen all day. Why don't we go and read a book/play with X toy' would be much better. Give him suggestions, otherwise trying to think of what to do could be completely overwhelming.

Always carry out threats. Never belittle a child for crying. I would use distraction here by helping DS to find something else to do and probably find something to do with him.

*boys shouldn't cry

crying boys don't get video games is so confusing, it's like there's a link between him crying and not being allowed more screen time, whereas he's not allowed more screen time whether he cries or not, even if he was good as gold it would be time up. can you just explain it like that to your dh, not that he's 'shaming' him (although i agree i get that your dh doesn't get that) but tell your dh that he's confusing him.

Thanks all. DH is brilliant at interacting with DS in many ways but this aspect of his behaviour just makes me cringe. He has a very fixed mindset though and sees it as a personal attack when I try to talk to him about it. His refrain when I pull him up is usually "Oh, so DS does something wrong and I get a row, typical" then he shuts down. This is really important, how do I make him see this?

Thanks @museumum that's an idea to try.

He mocks your DS???? WTF!!! I wouldn't stand for that shit! That's got me quite pissed off.

Encouraging someone (be they a child or an adult) to try new things is great, I tried to get my DP to eat some courgette. He didn't like it. Do you think I teased him about it, made any comment other than 'that's fine you can just have extra carrots and broccoli with tea'?

Mocking him is going to destroy your DS self esteem, his relationship with his father and stop him wanting to try new things in case he doesn't like it and get 'mocked'.

Maybe try approaching it with your husband (can't be doing DH right now!) as your son is a person, with all the same rights, wants and sensibilities as any other person, but with less self control. Would he mock you for not liking something? Or a work colleague? Or his mum? Would he like it if his son or you mock him? Would he think you were wrong for being upset about not being able to do a favoured activity? Would he not be disappointed if he wanted to do something but couldn't? Yes he needs rules and he needs to be made to follow those rules but also needs to know why, and not everything needs to be 'punished'.

I would insist on it being "crying children" and not the gendered "crying boys".

In regards to original post:

1. "Boy's don't cry" narrative is common from fathers to sons, but is extremely unhelpful and can cause issues later in life in feeling able to show emotions.
2. To not follow through with disciple does tend to undermine the 'threat' when it's next given.
3. To jump straight to punishment (of going to bed early) simply because he looked upset seems like a bit of an over-reaction on your husband's part, I'm guessing from the fact that he's a bit uncomfortable with your son crying. Means the jump to punishment is more to do with your husband's issue than your son's.

In response to how he handled you bringing it up:
It's always difficult bringing up such issues as most people's first response will be to get defensive and conversations can quickly deteriorate into extremes (e.g. "well if you don't like the dinner I've made tonight, I'm never cooking for you again and you can make your own from now on").

Before you go into the convo, try and think about what you want to achieve from it and how you can get your husband there (you'll know him better than us!). No-one likes being told they're doing something wrong, especially parents with their own children, so maybe focus on what you can do next time, how you can approach these situations in future instead of dissecting what he did wrong and putting him on the back foot.

Sounds like you're coming at it from a good perspective though!

I agree that DH shouldn't have used the crying boys thing but also I would not entertain "validating" his feelings in such a circumstance.

Just a no means no.

I wouldn't entertain validating your DH's feelings either

Thanks @happygirly1, helpful suggestions. He definitely defers to 'experts' when he wants to know something (who usually prove me right, but hey-ho) so I've found a couple of parenting books that might be useful. I can see how having it come from me makes him resistant, I hate it when he calls me on things I'm doing wrong. I might just tell him exactly that and give him the opportunity to read up on it himself.

He loves DS and wants so much for him to grow up to be an excellent person but had a truly terrible example to follow in his own parents.

I agree that he phrased it in a mocking way but if your son is crying because he's told no then perhaps he would benefit from an earlier bedtime?

I wouldn't say anything about 'crying boys', but I would say that crying wouldn't change my mind and to either find something else to do or I'll find them a job to do.

Ahh, see Allthebest I believe that no still means no but that recognising the emotions that stem from it can help DS to deal with how he's feeling and move through his emotions rather than teaching him not to have the feeling in the first place IYSWIM. I was a lot like DS when I was little, quite sensitive and I felt things really deeply but I had to grow a thicker skin to cope. I think I would have benefited from my emotions being taken into account a bit more. I may be projecting my own stuff on to him, but I can't see that being empathetic will do him too much harm. His tears don't generally sway me into changing my answer.

As to empathy for DH. He didn't receive any empathy from his mother growing up so maybe he could use a bit.... after he realises he needs to change his approach to parenting.

I read he crying boys bit as not entertaining the tantrum as well. With young children, not all tears are to do with being hurt and upset. It is often more frustration. I think your dh was trying to teach him to deal with the frustration in another way - i.e. by not crying and seeking out another activity.

I agree it's pointless threatening with bed. It might be 2pm! I would maybe suggest a boaard game or trip to park if he can't think of anything but also encourage more independent play - e.g. set up Lego, play for a bit with him then go off and get on with things. Or maybe you could invite friends over.

I definitely think you should be encouraging him not to come to you if he has nothing to do and not depend on screens for entertainment. You just need to work out the approach. Not easy if you have stuff to do either.

ha ha stolemyusername I often tell him that if he's bored he can clean his room or sort his lego. He usually finds himself something to do pretty quickly after that.

Agree with most posts about the 'crying boys' statement being illogical, unfair and confusing. Re his 'I'll be doing less with DS since I'm so bad at at', it doesn't sound as if anyone is doing much with him if he's on a screen all day. If he has more structure to his day, and screen time is a part of that (eg games for an hour in the morning then another hour before bed) it's easier to say 'you've had all your game time now' instead of daft threats.

It really depends a lot on whether he said crying boys or crying boys i.e is it the fact that he is a boy that shouldn't cry, or just that he is silly to cry over the situation and trying to toughen him up a bit? I actually have a bit of sympathy over the latter, because teaching kids to be resilient is smart. So it could be rubbish or it could not, depends on context.

Could you DH perhaps get off his fat lazy arse and do something with your DS - for example something educational or fun? Heaven forbid your DS might learn something, become cleverer, or widen his horizons.

Sick of lazy-ass parenting.

It's the 'crying boys' bit, that I don't like, it's kind of bullying.
I agree with the limited screen time, but it is always easier to offer him an alternative. He needs to drop the 'crying boys don't get ', he'll give your DS a complex.

I think your DH needs to understand that there is a direct correlation between time your DH spends teaching and playing with your son and the likelihood he will turn out to be functional and bright.

He will literally get out what he puts in.

It wasn't really a tantrum gandalf he was upset and trying very hard to hold his tears in when he asked a second time. He knows that we don't give in to tantrums.

I should say that we have reviewed our screen time policy in light of school starting soon (Scotland) and have cut it right back as we have been a bit lax over the summer. Another reason why the crying comment from DH wasn't exactly fair. He's been used to having more access than normal to screens over the summer (on the occasions when we weren't out doing educational/fun/outdoor/social things) so to have it nipped in the bud is a bit of an adjustment for him. That's our fault for possibly being too relaxed so I think bit of gentleness is warranted when reinstating low screen time policies. I will rethink summer screen time next year!!

Whether the emphasis is on "crying" or "boys" really isn't the issue here; the sad fact is that by giving the message that crying is unacceptable or shameful is so damaging. As is mocking. If you look up the definition of emotional abuse (it's either on Childline or the NSPCC's website), deliberately teasing, mocking and shaming a child is listed as one of the behaviours. I don't think you should specify that to your DH at this stage as he will feel personally attacked, but next time he does it, you really will have to nip it in the bud. Not in front of your DS, ideally, but in another room.

Re your DH being defensive and PA, I would calmly say "I'm not actually attacking you. We do need to present a united front to DS though and I'm sure that you would rather know if you are accidentally repeating your Mother's parenting mistakes, wouldn't you?"