To think "what a twat?" - transport and child related.

[youarenotkiddingme]

Just watched a guest a lot on GMB.

Very interesting debate with regards children giving up their seat on transport for adults.

However the 'etiquette' expert stated that
"Children don't need a seat as they don't seat still in them"

AIBU to think that's the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard 'for' children giving up a seat?

He was a dick plus young children do need a seat. More so than him.

Yep, twat.

Children under 6 need a seat because they are more likely to fall and injure themselves.

The fact ds can't sit still is the exact reason he would need a seat

We're all just people. No reason a kid should give up a seat for an able-bodied "adult".

Ridiculous logic. YANBU

If a child is going to fall they should be held or supported by a parent. Children (and adults) should always give up their seats for the elderly or disabled. No one has to give up a seat to an otherwise well-bodied person though.

As a child I always gave up my seat for an adult. I would sit on my mums knee as a young child. When I was too big to do that I was old enough to stand safely.
I have done the same with my own DC.

It has never occured to me not to follow that rule.

Why to people make sweeping statements, on either side of the argument? DD has always been perfectly capable of both sitting reasonably still in her seat, and standing holding on to a pole. Which means she sits if there's room, and stands or sits on my knee if there isn't.

It always annoys me when a big group of kids pile on the tube, spread themselves all over the seats, and the adults with them don't make them double up. Interestingly, a group of Italian teenagers came in the carriage I was in recently, and they all automatically sat on each other's knees, including boys sitting on boys' knees. I bet British teenagers wouldn't do that, probably terrified they'd be emasculated if they did .

I also once told DD that, however tired she was after a day frolicking at Grandma's, she was nowhere near as tired as the people getting on the train at the end of the working day. I remember that bonecrushing tiredness.

Children under 6 should be with an adult so can hold onto them. Seats should go to adults first. I was always taught to give up my seat when I was small. Why would a child need a seat?

Fed up of working 14 hours on my feet to get on the tube to find children jumping up and down hogging all the seats.

He was a cock.

Young kids should sit on parents laps, older kids should offer or be told to offer.

I live in London and kids travel for free adults obviously pay so I'd absolutely expect kids to give up seats for adults. I'd also expect the adult in question to be grateful and say thank you.

Basic manners seem to be dying by the day in my experience and it does make me sad. I'm trying to raise children to be polite and respectful of other people but we're often not extended common courtesy in return.

The guy on GMB was a plank though.

I was brought up on children giving up seats for adults as I could sit on mum or dad's knee or when older, stand.

This doesn't seem to be the rule any more and leads to mystification of the older generation (and frankly I am still old enough to give birth) who are busy looking for their seat on a crowded train and finding it taken up by able-bodied children looking at phones.

The main twat on GMB at the moment is Jeremy Fucking Kyle. Just when I thought I couldn't hate anyone more than Piers Morgan. I hung around long enough this morning to hear him say that the Etiquette guy didn't have children so wasn't qualified to comment and then turned it off.
Wanker.

I think kids should stand, they don't pay for their seats.

Once I was on crutches with my leg in a cast and a woman with a kid got on my train and TOLD me to move for her kid. I said no, so she turned to the guy opposite who had a walking cane and TOLD him to move. After he said no she flew into total meltdown ranting about how selfish people are... funnily enough nobody else on the train offered their seats after that display.

Actually user, children over 5 in my area pay half fare. Over 65s get free bus travel though. Should they give up their seats as they haven't paid?

As a young woman living in London I would give up my tube seat for people with young kids. They definitely needed it more than I did. They were mostly pleasantly surprised but grateful.

I remember a coworker saying he would never give up his seat for anyone as he was tired from work but I remember being so heavily pregnant standing in front of the priority seats which were filled with middle aged people in suits feeling like I was about to collapse. It isn't about being tired. It's about safety sometimes.

I think the issue comes from people generalising.

People with a need should be able to sit. The issue comes when people make judgements on that need based simply on appearance.

Most children can stand when over about 7 - that doesn't mean all can.

Most adults can stand - that doesn't mean all can.

"Thankfully" Ds is fastened safely in his chair on public transport generally so doesn't need a seat just to battle for the wheelchair space but if he had to go on without his seat for whatever reason he would need to sit and I would stand letting him sit or I would ask for a seat if needed as he physically can't stand safely.

I think kids should stand, they don't pay for their seats

Interesting reasoning, as often elderly people don't pay either (anyone over 60 in Scotland) so should they all stand?

On the tube especially when it's busy I would always give a seat to a child. Otherwise commuters who only see a gap in the crush and keep trying to push into it. Also it must be daunting for a child to be completely hemmed in with bags at face height around them.

On a bus I much prefer to see small children sitting down either with a parent or alone. It only takes the bus to stop sharply for them to go flying.

I see young children as vulnerable.

Once they get older I would expect them to stand for someone with greater need, in the same way I would. However, being an adult doesn't automatically mean you have greater need of the seat.

Elderly people are just that - elderly. They are, or should be, offered seats because they need them more.

I've got ds to sit on my knee - or given up my seat to him and stood for others before.

I totally buy into giving up seats for those you think may be of greater need for whatever reason. I do think there are totally reasoned arguments on both sides of this never ending debate.

However what's seemed an adult? Should full paying 16 yo be expected to give up their seat for a full paying 18yo?

I did laugh at the story JK told about his dad. His dad was 60 and offered his seat to a pregnant woman - who accused him of being sexist and told him she was perfectly capable of standing on the train

Let's face it - this argument will never end. Nor do I think there's actually a winning side to be had.

If you are travelling London to West Country. The journey is about 4/5 hours. A child may end up standing the whole journey or a good proportion of it if they stand up for an adult every time it's required because adults may get on and off and just be going 3-4 stations along.

What missing is - imo - basic human respect for others. Basic human respect doesn't mean teaching kids they are lesser beings.

I do agree though that somewhere the balance has toiled too far over and in some cases and places children do think they have too much power. I'm thinking of places like schools but I still wouldn't generalise this to all pupils!

I don't think many people would class 60 as elderly these days.

If the definition of elderly is eligible for free transport are you saying I should offer one of my managers a seat on the bus because he is 62? or should he give me a seat because I've paid and he hasn't?

I do know what he means, as I have stood up for 90 minutes on a train while a small child who had a seat spent less than 10 minutes of his journey actually sitting in it and the rest of the time his seat was empty while he stood up, ran up and down, rolled around on the floor or climbed over his mum - but nobody else could sit there. And that is massively annoying. I don't think he meant they shouldn't have a sit if they fidget, I think he meant they shouldn't have a seat if they barely use it at all and run around instead.

However, obviously this doesn't apply to all kids so I'm not defending the bloke. Most of them sit in their seat quite happily for even pretty long journeys.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a parent making their kid get up for an adult (I always had to when I was little) and I think some people are massively precious about their little darlings needing a seat at all costs, but I don't think people should be obliged to turf a kid out of a seat if the kid is actually using it.

His dad was 60 and offered his seat to a pregnant woman - who accused him of being sexist and told him she was perfectly capable of standing on the train

Yeah, right...